all these athletes that have been using propecia...

[jeffsss]

all seem to have one thing in common..
GREAT HAIR..


here is my theory though.. and it may be stupid...

since propecia blocks Test from turning into DHT.. there is more TEST in an athletes (or our) body..

so it's sort of like actually taking testosterone!?

you have more in your blood stream and it will enhance muscle performance.

and i've often wondered why MORE testosterone in your body could be bad for your hair even if your taking propecia.. ??

 

[Thinning]

No, DHT is a powerfull anabolic agent, more powerfull than testosterone. Many anabolic steroids are DHT based or DHT derived due to this. In general, we lose some of our athletic ability and strength by using finistride.

 

[Britannia]

Propecia is only a banned substance for athletes because it masks (i.e. hides) the effects of other illegal drugs.

 

[luke77]

I have been told that propecia does indeed lead to increased testosterone production by the body, albeit onl about 10% more. I thought this is why it is a banned substance?

 

[Britannia]

I have been told that propecia does indeed lead to increased testosterone production by the body, albeit onl about 10% more. I thought this is why it is a banned substance?

Nope.

 

[Siberian]

I have been told that propecia does indeed lead to increased testosterone production by the body, albeit onl about 10% more. I thought this is why it is a banned substance?

Nope.

Well, he got the first part right

Not "testosterone production," but less testosterone is being converted into DHT, hence more is left circulating around. I think

 

[Britannia]

I have been told that propecia does indeed lead to increased testosterone production by the body, albeit onl about 10% more. I thought this is why it is a banned substance?

Nope.

Well, he got the first part right

Not "testosterone production," but less testosterone is being converted into DHT, hence more is left circulating around. I think

The liver deals with any surplus testosterone not converted into DHT.

 

[Siberian]

I have been told that propecia does indeed lead to increased testosterone production by the body, albeit onl about 10% more. I thought this is why it is a banned substance?

Nope.

Well, he got the first part right

Not "testosterone production," but less testosterone is being converted into DHT, hence more is left circulating around. I think

The liver deals with any surplus testosterone not converted into DHT.

Well... OK. I'm just sayin' what I've read in the clinical data. And the clinical trials state that serum testosterone levels rise by 10% in people taking Propecia. With dutasteride, it's much higher than that even, though I forget by how much.

 

[global]

No, DHT is a powerfull anabolic agent, more powerfull than testosterone. Many anabolic steroids are DHT based or DHT derived due to this. In general, we lose some of our athletic ability and strength by using finistride.

That's not exactly true, DHT has very little anabolic activity but high androgenic activity.

Therefore it doesn't make your muscles bigger, but does help you keep fat off.

 

[Aplunk1]

I thought that weight gain was one of the side effects of finasteride?

I'm probably wrong. Please correct me.

 

[Subliminal]

A lot of good answers here.

The increase in Test from DHT inhibition by finasteride is measureable, but not nearly enough to induce tangible changes in body composition. This was shown in a published study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

To add perspective, when supplementing the body's own natural Test production, anything less than 400mg/week probably will have no measureable effect.

There are plenty of top athletes who are/were balding. Michael Jordan, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Roger Clemens, Matt Hasselbeck, Lance Armstrong (receded hairline) etc.

DHT is not really a muscle builder, but does have a role in protection against fat gain. This may be partly due to counteracting the effects of estrogens. This may also be why some people complain of overall fat gain and gyno while on finasteride. These are probably the extreme minority -- those who are not otherwise in good physical shape and/or who are very sensitive to the effects of estrogen (both probably go hand in hand). People who are athletes or otherwise have a solid workout regimen will probably never notice any significant changes in body composition from finasteride treatment.

Keep in mind that your metabolism slows as you get older anyway. Some finasteride users say, "well, I started finasteride a year ago and now my belly is bigger than it was last year." Well, heck, you're now one year older than when you started finasteride, and your metabolism is probably slower as well. If you were eating the same calories but naturally burning less, then of course you'll gain fat. Has nothing to do with finasteride.

 

[cook'n'milkies]

Good God, i would love to gain some weight. I about 6 foot 4 and 160 pounds. Meaning, I'm a skinny f***. and i have glasses. and i'm balding. But goddam, i have a hot girlfriend!

 

[Siberian]

Good God, i would love to gain some weight. I about 6 foot 4 and 160 pounds. Meaning, I'm a skinny f***. and i have glasses. and i'm balding. But goddam, i have a hot girlfriend!

LOL, I hear ya. I'm 6'2", 160 lbs., and 41 years old. I've been on Propecia for 5+ years (with a 9 month break in there), and my weight remained consistent.

I eat good meals (mainly pasta and rice), but do I pig out badly in-between on ice cream, chocolate, chops, etc. And the most exercise I get is walking to my car.

EDIT: Oh, and I have a hot wife

 

[luke77]

To add perspective, when supplementing the body's own natural Test production, anything less than 400mg/week probably will have no measureable effect.

Good article, but this part is not true. For men on TRT (their body doesn't produce enough testosterone), 100 mg.week is the normal dose and it gets them into the upper levels of normal. As little as 50 mg/week can make a significant difference. If a man were to get 400 mg/week of testosterone it would most likely seriously screw him up.

 

[Subliminal]

To add perspective, when supplementing the body's own natural Test production, anything less than 400mg/week probably will have no measureable effect.

Good article, but this part is not true. For men on TRT (their body doesn't produce enough testosterone), 100 mg.week is the normal dose and it gets them into the upper levels of normal. As little as 50 mg/week can make a significant difference. If a man were to get 400 mg/week of testosterone it would most likely seriously screw him up.

I thought we were talking about normal, healthy men such as pro athletes? Yes, hypogonadal men will benefit greatly from just low doses of Test, like you said. Going from zero to something, is much more noticeable than going from normal to slightly above normal.

A normal male with average Test levels, which most of the guys on this board are, will not see any increase in lean body mass by taking finasteride.

400 mg/week of Test will not screw you up. Not even 600 mg/week for 10 weeks does much harm:

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/335/1/1

Long term use of course will screw you up.

 

[luke77]

I was responding to your statement that, "when supplementing the body's own natural Test production, anything less than 400mg/week probably will have no measureable effect."

Whether we are talking about hypogonadal men, "normal" men, or pro athletes, 400 mg of test a week will have a pronounced effect. The study you posted follows men for 10 weeks at "supraphysiological" doses, and even in that amount of time, "The base-line serum concentrations of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and sex hormone–binding globulin...decreased significantly in the two testosterone groups."

400 mg/week will not just put someone slightly above normal. 400 mg/week will put someone totally off the charts, and screw up their endocrine system if they stay on it for any considerable period of time.

I agree that propecia probably won't have a noticeable difference on testosterone levels.

 

[Subliminal]

Luke, I'm talking about Test doses that would be required to increase muscle mass in normal men. Low doses of Test, say 50-100 mg/week, will bring an old man up to the normal range. But for noticeable performance enhancement in normal men, the same dose would probably be useless. I guess we've just been talking about different things all this time.