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- 177
1. your permanent health that you have to deal with every day until you die =/= losing some money
2. I think its rather clear its a whole lot more than "2%"
Finasteride cause DNA damage . new study in vivo
- Thread starter jamesbooker1975
- Start date
2. I think its rather clear its a whole lot more than "2%"
- Reaction score
- 237
I think you should post your hair then. Because again millions of men take the drug and the vast majority don’t complain about any sides. You either have very little hair loss and don’t need finasteride or have so much hair loss there’s nothing you can do.
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- 237
I just feel like bc you had a bad experience and cherry pick this and that, is cope. I take finasteride with zero sides and am fine with stopping if I get sides = no cope. You proactively are anti finasteride = cope. If I had sides I would let people know but would still encourage them to try it, bc the odds are they won’t get sides. It’s really very simple. Again there’s no evidence of pfs whatsoever, or permanent sides. Every doctor I’ve spoken to has said they’ve treated over 10,000 patients and have never had anyone get permanent sides.
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- 237
I feel like you do have to prove something if you are so vocal about this so often, like it’s weird lol
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- 237
I understand where you are coming from, but dude It’s the exact opposite - the sides are exaggerated on hair forums, not downplayed. The reason you even think so many people get sides is because of selection bias. These forums attract people with anxiety and ocd, and also people who do get legit sides. Someone with no anxiety and no sides, having a successful treatment, will have no reason to post on a forum. Forums can be a place where the 1% converse about their sides. But the general population has a very small chance of sides, and sides do stop when you stop taking the medication. You can feel discouraged that you got sides, you can tell people about your sides, but what you shouldn’t do is discourage people from trying the medicine, or make them believe sides are more common then they are - this is your opinion. You are 30. There are 20 year olds who can catch their hair loss early, who might see your fear mongering, and be regretful.
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- 237
Again though. A poll here is garbage. You are taking a poll of people on a forum due to sides, and are surprised that people said they have sides? A poll of the general population taking finasteride would be closer to 2%. I guess agree to disagree lol
- Reaction score
- 237
If I had come on this forum before finasteride and saw what he wrote, maybe I wouldn’t take it. I’ve been on for 1.5 years, zero sides, and am maintaining.
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- 1,032
Well, I consider someone a Dumb person, for exampl, someone who can't even understand an ironic sentence . So I guess, the joke is on you.
Also agree on the point on the point that finasteride is not a “sugar pill” and should definitely be further researched by people instead of being easily influenced by on post on a place like tressless. However I do agree with JohnSmith21 that based on majority of long term and even short term studies on finasteride excluding the one done from Merck (which were B.S), and using studies not only done on hair loss but, multiple other areas, it has showed a pretty decent safety profile, of course with the typical increased risks you may get from inhibiting 5AR and decreasing DHT. Easy as this, finasteride is optimal for hair, good for prostate, and that’s about it. It does benefit many young men from severe depression from hair loss though, which can occur to anyone, for go sakes the world strongest man Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson got a hair transplant and Elon musk, a genius in his own right and incredible busy man, has had a transplant and high probability is using finasteride to maintain results. Of course I am just using those to demonstrate caring about hair loss is found in all spectrums of men.
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- 423
I'm 34 now and I've been on dutasteride for seven years so far, and I've tolerated the drug fine. It seems unlikely to me that anything should happen or change that will make me regret using dutasteride in another seven years, but I'm not psychic and so I can't say for sure how things will be by then. Every now and then someone will come back to the forum and report on their experience of using a 5AR inhibitor for 20 years or so, and they generally report positive experiences, so that is a good sign.
Yes a lot of the time when someone claims that finasteride caused them sides, it can be explained by the nocebo effect. The power of nocebo can be very strong, and I can see it all the time on these forums. I have a background in psychology and I've studied this.
Those alternatives don't work as well as oral finasteride though, and they don't have the same proven track record. In the case of topical dutasteride, if it is able to work, it is likely because a lot of it has gone systemic in the first place. And regarding transplants, you really need to use finasteride in addition in order to get good and lasting results from a transplant.
Polls on this website will be formed from a very biased sample. It does not reflect the incidence of finasteride side-effects in the general population.
Been on it far longer then you, however I do constantly look at research on finasteride, especially the “negative” studies so I am not blind to what it can do. I clearly believe with the correct things in place you can make yourself less susceptible to the effects finasteride can have but, of course sh*t may still happen. Things such as diabetes, liver, insulin resistance, and etc, that are effected by finasteride, should definitely emphasize the importance of routine blood tests, along with lifestyles interventions that lower the risk in suffering in those areas, Someone pre-diabetic is at far more of a risk then someone in the low normal range, exactly a reason that finasteride is not some “one-size fit all” drug.
Were the merck studies really bs though? why is that the gsk studies on dutasteride showed an almost similar rate of sexual dysfunction as the merck ones on finasteride? were gsk studies bs too? are they all in this conspiracy together to dupe people about the safety of 5aris? Takes quite a leap of faith to believe that. Im not saying sides don't exist, i have weaker orgasms on dutasteride, that is not nocebo, it is very real side, but im also aware that my experience may not be the norm.
Also quick point about the original post about finasteride and women,
-based on the blood test results, finasteride seems to put given women a hormonal profile that mimic menopause, which has many incredible negative physical and mental implication. Strange how finasteride effects womens hormonal profile differently then men.
-based on the blood test results, finasteride seems to put given women a hormonal profile that mimic menopause, which has many incredible negative physical and mental implication. Strange how finasteride effects womens hormonal profile differently then men.
- Reaction score
- 497
would someone take finasteride if it's meant to fix flu? no
we just cope with it because we overvalue our hair thats all nothing logical about taking a hormonal drug
we just cope with it because we overvalue our hair thats all nothing logical about taking a hormonal drug
Just FYI, I am am on finasteride... but,
it was not flawed for the 1 years results, however the original trials long term results were flawed simply due to not taking into account people dropping out of the study, which slightly skews the results.
What I do base my decision is multiple other studies through the years, including the one you just mention on GSK along with the long term studies done for hair, sperm, prostate, and comparing to other hair loss drugs.
Let me make this clear though, 100% of men get “side effects”. Now I understand that many will throw a hissy fit over this but, it’s a fact. Although based on Pigeon previous post history I must say he did alarm me with his sadistic posts on wishing death on others and hoping they get terrible side effects, he is correct in the sense that decreasing 70% of dht mainly coming from 5AR2 inhibition is not “healthy” or somthing that can be done with no sides.
The real factor however is noticeable sides, which is most important. If by taking finasteride my refractory period goes from 15-25 minutes, somthing I will not be able to notice unless actually tested, will I take that with the benefit of me keeping my hair unchanged for 10 years plus. Yes I would and I have. In scientific and literal terms yes, finasteride does cause side effects but, majority of the time in clinical studies we see that majority do not get side effects that are noticeable or extremely harmful to ones health.
As for the effect on cognition and neurosteriods, which is often the topic that freaks individuals out the most. This is my view based on what we have today. No study other then the one linked below did took men who never took finasteride before, had a one group take nothing and the other take finasteride for one year and compared cognitive testing scores. To no surprise test results were pretty much the same with the control group having slightly better spatial scores and the finasteride group better verbal memory testing. They hypothesize that this may be due to finasteride lack of 5AR1 inhibition, the main 5AR found in the brain, however to men this study clearly demonstrates what’s the last 20 years of research has shown, the incredible neuroprotective and enhancing properties that estrogen has.
Cognitive effects of testosterone and finasteride administration in older hypogonadal men
Serum concentrations of neuroactive androgens decline in older men and, in some studies, low testosterone is associated with decreased cognitive function and incidence of depression. Existing studies evaluating the effect of testosterone administration ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Estrogen is the main component to women’s better memory and academic scoring compared to men. It’s the reason scientist have been doing very diligent research on creating selective estrogen modulators, which can give the beneficial effects estrogen has, without some of the risks and feminizing effects. Progesterone is right behind estrogen as well.
Again as quickly discussed all research on finasteride main benefit over Dutasteride is its lack of inhibition of 5AR1. 5AR1 which is most present in the brain and based on many research paper the main 5AR that is used to convert ALLOPREG. 5AR2 deficient men demonstrate no signs of mental retardation or an expontential increase in cognitive decline. The difficulty with using the CSF levels in finasteride users is explained...
It is common practice in the medical field to use CSF as a proxy on the bodies level of neurosteriods, reason being is we cannot directly measure levels in the brain. This is typically a good way of predicting what levels are like the brain, as the correlation are strong of low CSF neurosteriods and there negative effects. However finasteride users are a strange case, specifically because it is inhibiting 5AR2, with minimal 5AR1 inhibition. Also this has been demonstrated in the Italian study on PFS patients
Altered methylation pattern of the SRD5A2 gene in the cerebrospinal fluid of post-finasteride patients: a pilot study
Post-finasteride syndrome (PFS) occurs in patients with androgenic alopecia after suspension of the finasteride treatment, leading to a large variety of persistent side effects. Despite the severity of the clinical picture, the mechanism underlying the ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
(This study to me somewhat had an opposite effect, demonstrates no correlation with only 50% of the PFS patients having altered 5AR2 methylation. Also comparing it to healthy individuals. The study should have taken people who never took finasteride and are healthy, take finasteride for a period of time, and measure levels after 1-3 months of discontinued use)
CSF seems to be comprised of mainly 5AR2. In people not on finasteride, low 5AR is going to be evenly low in terms of 5AR1 and 5AR2. So using CSF measurement is a great idea for non-finasteride users, however becomes highly complicated for finasteride users with uneven levels of inhibition. Still though in no way am I saying that finasteride cannot lower neurosteriods, just making an analysis and demstroting that it’s reduction may not as severe, specifically in the brain.
TL
Rbasically most people who do there actual research on finasteride will typically have a view point somewhere in the middle not falling into the extremist groups of
Pro-Finasteride- “DHT is a trash hormone”
“just take it like a Advil and forget about it”
“it’s all the nocebo effect”
Anti-Finasteride - “Have fun being a tranny”
“Wait till the side effects hit you, then talk to me”
“Finasteride is straight poison”
In my humble opinion both camps are driven by bias and a mixture of stupidity. In reality it comes down to doing the proper research and actual analyzing your personal chances of risks, and how important your hair is to you. This stuff is not life or death, it’s merely for cosmetics. Many young men though do become depressed with hair loss and it can be extremely harmful to there mental health.
For YouTube videos anyone besides More plates more dates and Leo and longevity, either have very little knowledge or biased (Almost always Pro-finasteride) or both.
Anyways I can personally report I have been on finasteride for 16 years now with “side effects” that are not noticeable. My hair is still above baseline, in addition with minoxidil and microneedling. My 20s and entire 30s I have had hair, which I probably wouldn’t and that has drastically helped my confidence. Probably gonna start TRT sometime next year, just due to wanting to be at the higher range and just overall well-being, test levels sit at 450-550 the last 5 years on blood test.
Works both ways in life Pigeon is probably saving some dumbass kid who was gonna do zero research on finasteride, and f*** him in the head with years on worry about finasteride but, like John said fear people away from finasteride who were gonna be fine. Anyways besides the sadistic and psycho stuff Pigeon says, it’s somewhat good to have someone demonstrate the cons once in a while.
Yep 100%, if society did not view hair as negative, sh*t looks in general, we would not do the things we do. It’s actually sad but, besides the confidence factor that hair has given me, the benefits in business, dating, and overall day to day life that caring about looks has given me clearly demonstrates how shallow society is. Friend of mine who lost there hair in there 20s along with skin aging all noted the same downslide in how people treat and react to them. It’s the world we live in unfortunately. I do not even see bald as a bad thing, society for some reason does though, unless in certain cases.
- Reaction score
- 1,032
Again, you don't even have a blood work done. So is like a 34 old guy who eat " Mc donalds " everyday and it said " everything it is fine " . All an smoker who have being smoking for 7 years and said " hey, I don't have lung cancer, everything is fine " .
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- 582
It's everyones own lifes at the end of the day. I would, however, encourage everyone to thoroughly think twice of getting kids while being or having been on finasteride for extended periods of time. You will have to live with the outcome for the rest of your life, and so does the kid.
- Reaction score
- 237
This was a well written response. I guess what I meant by sides is noticeable sides. Advil has sided, an egg I eat has sides. Everything has sides, I get that your taking that route. I meant most people will not notice anything negative that they can attribute to finasteride, and if they do, it will most likely go away when they stop taking it. You’ve been on for 16 years, what has your experience been?Just FYI, I am am on finasteride... but,
it was not flawed for the 1 years results, however the original trials long term results were flawed simply due to not taking into account people dropping out of the study, which slightly skews the results.
What I do base my decision is multiple other studies through the years, including the one you just mention on GSK along with the long term studies done for hair, sperm, prostate, and comparing to other hair loss drugs.
Let me make this clear though, 100% of men get “side effects”. Now I understand that many will throw a hissy fit over this but, it’s a fact. Although based on Pigeon previous post history I must say he did alarm me with his sadistic posts on wishing death on others and hoping they get terrible side effects, he is correct in the sense that decreasing 70% of dht mainly coming from 5AR2 inhibition is not “healthy” or somthing that can be done with no sides.
The real factor however is noticeable sides, which is most important. If by taking finasteride my refractory period goes from 15-25 minutes, somthing I will not be able to notice unless actually tested, will I take that with the benefit of me keeping my hair unchanged for 10 years plus. Yes I would and I have. In scientific and literal terms yes, finasteride does cause side effects but, majority of the time in clinical studies we see that majority do not get side effects that are noticeable or extremely harmful to ones health.
As for the effect on cognition and neurosteriods, which is often the topic that freaks individuals out the most. This is my view based on what we have today. No study other then the one linked below did took men who never took finasteride before, had a one group take nothing and the other take finasteride for one year and compared cognitive testing scores. To no surprise test results were pretty much the same with the control group having slightly better spatial scores and the finasteride group better verbal memory testing. They hypothesize that this may be due to finasteride lack of 5AR1 inhibition, the main 5AR found in the brain, however to men this study clearly demonstrates what’s the last 20 years of research has shown, the incredible neuroprotective and enhancing properties that estrogen has.
Cognitive effects of testosterone and finasteride administration in older hypogonadal men
Serum concentrations of neuroactive androgens decline in older men and, in some studies, low testosterone is associated with decreased cognitive function and incidence of depression. Existing studies evaluating the effect of testosterone administration ...
Estrogen is the main component to women’s better memory and academic scoring compared to men. It’s the reason scientist have been doing very diligent research on creating selective estrogen modulators, which can give the beneficial effects estrogen has, without some of the risks and feminizing effects. Progesterone is right behind estrogen as well.
Again as quickly discussed all research on finasteride main benefit over Dutasteride is its lack of inhibition of 5AR1. 5AR1 which is most present in the brain and based on many research paper the main 5AR that is used to convert ALLOPREG. 5AR2 deficient men demonstrate no signs of mental retardation or an expontential increase in cognitive decline. The difficulty with using the CSF levels in finasteride users is explained...
It is common practice in the medical field to use CSF as a proxy on the bodies level of neurosteriods, reason being is we cannot directly measure levels in the brain. This is typically a good way of predicting what levels are like the brain, as the correlation are strong of low CSF neurosteriods and there negative effects. However finasteride users are a strange case, specifically because it is inhibiting 5AR2, with minimal 5AR1 inhibition. Also this has been demonstrated in the Italian study on PFS patients
Altered methylation pattern of the SRD5A2 gene in the cerebrospinal fluid of post-finasteride patients: a pilot study
Post-finasteride syndrome (PFS) occurs in patients with androgenic alopecia after suspension of the finasteride treatment, leading to a large variety of persistent side effects. Despite the severity of the clinical picture, the mechanism underlying the ...
(This study to me somewhat had an opposite effect, demonstrates no correlation with only 50% of the PFS patients having altered 5AR2 methylation. Also comparing it to healthy individuals. The study should have taken people who never took finasteride and are healthy, take finasteride for a period of time, and measure levels after 1-3 months of discontinued use)
CSF seems to be comprised of mainly 5AR2. In people not on finasteride, low 5AR is going to be evenly low in terms of 5AR1 and 5AR2. So using CSF measurement is a great idea for non-finasteride users, however becomes highly complicated for finasteride users with uneven levels of inhibition. Still though in no way am I saying that finasteride cannot lower neurosteriods, just making an analysis and demstroting that it’s reduction may not as severe, specifically in the brain.
TL
basically most people who do there actual research on finasteride will typically have a view point somewhere in the middle not falling into the extremist groups of
Pro-Finasteride- “DHT is a trash hormone”
“just take it like a Advil and forget about it”
“it’s all the nocebo effect”
Anti-Finasteride - “Have fun being a tranny”
“Wait till the side effects hit you, then talk to me”
“Finasteride is straight poison”
In my humble opinion both camps are driven by bias and a mixture of stupidity. In reality it comes down to doing the proper research and actual analyzing your personal chances of risks, and how important your hair is to you. This stuff is not life or death, it’s merely for cosmetics. Many young men though do become depressed with hair loss and it can be extremely harmful to there mental health.
For YouTube videos anyone besides More plates more dates and Leo and longevity, either have very little knowledge or biased (Almost always Pro-finasteride) or both.
Anyways I can personally report I have been on finasteride for 16 years now with “side effects” that are not noticeable. My hair is still above baseline, in addition with minoxidil and microneedling. My 20s and entire 30s I have had hair, which I probably wouldn’t and that has drastically helped my confidence. Probably gonna start TRT sometime next year, just due to wanting to be at the higher range and just overall well-being, test levels sit at 450-550 the last 5 years on blood test.
Works both ways in life Pigeon is probably saving some dumbass kid who was gonna do zero research on finasteride, and f*** him in the head with years on worry about finasteride but, like John said fear people away from finasteride who were gonna be fine. Anyways besides the sadistic and psycho stuff Pigeon says, it’s somewhat good to have someone demonstrate the cons once in a while.