Your Opinion, Please! (Anti-androgens)

neis

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Hi all,

I am planning to have a gyno surgery next week and have the glands removed. Which of the two anti-androgens is the best to add to my regimen(orally)? spironolactone or Cyproterone acetate?
I did a google search and found out that spironolactone is a weak anti-androgen when taken orally and cyproterone acetate is a powerful anti-androgen.



I am already taking 50mg oral spironolactone alongside my other treatments for 6 months now and I've got gyno in my right and left breast.I dont think 50mg of oral spironolactone is going to be enough to help with hairloss... I am planing on getting that surgery, because if gyno will continue I will have to stop the oral spironolactone.
My goal is: once I will have the surgery, I will add one of the two to my regimen, to block as much androgen as I can without getting gyno. By doing so I won't be too sensitive to the side effects.

If I do increase the spironolactone dose or add Cyproterone acetate instead of spironolactone, I see it as giving my existing regimen a bit of a boost.


Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!
 

SuperMeh

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Stop oral spironolactone.. get on finasteride!

Don't start taking too many.. you'll start to move to a transsexuals regimen. I think oral spironolactone is quite powerful and not recommended for hair loss (?)
 

neis

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SuperMeh said:
Stop oral spironolactone.. get on finasteride!

Don't start taking too many.. you'll start to move to a transsexuals regimen. I think oral spironolactone is quite powerful and not recommended for hair loss (?)


BodyDysmorphic said:
why not add finasteride?



For me Finasteride hasn't done anything. I've tried Proscar/finasteride(5mg daily) for 2 years during this time without any success. Now I am on Avodart/Dutas for 3 months now.

Of course taking a med internally is going to have a systematic effect! I think that goes w/o saying. spironolactone and cyproterone acetate are proven anti-androgens when taken internally whereas their topical effectiveness is open for debate...
Having been on hairloss boards for some time I came to realize that topicals (aside from minoxidil) rarely give acceptable results. Plus, topicals, while many may be side-effect free, are a real pain in the *** to keep up with... They can make your hair greasy, mess up your hair style, and when you spend the night over your girls you either got to bring a suitcase of your topical crap or miss a day or two.

Internals are simple fast and easy. How many men on these boards do you know who got regrowth from using a non-minoxidil topical in addition to finasteride? Especially at the temple area!? All I am going to do is to pop the two pills(spironolactone or cyproterone acetate & dutasteride) after dinner and I'm done for the day! If I want to travel or go spend the night at my gf's house no prob. It is nearly hassle free and cheap.

The thing is I'm reading that spironolactone has very little success especially at such a low dose (50mg), and that Androcour at a similar dose would be much more effective....
Here are two links:
http://www.regrowth.com/hairloss-remedy ... cetate.cfm
http://www.androgeneticalopecia.com/hai ... ness.shtml

I am wondering though if cyproterone acetate would be a better addition to my regimen as an oral anti-androgen than spironolactone, if yes then I may take them together...
 

somone uk

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you're on a very slippery slope, i have not come across anyone using either but i do know that dutasteride will reduce 5-ar2 almost completely if you really insist on a strong anti androgen
just because a drug can function as an androgen blocker it does not necessarily mean it's going to block the androgen receptors in the hair follicle
 

neis

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seaback said:
I've been on both.
Don't do that.
You will have to stop after a few months. It's not a lifelong solution.
The study "Peripheral androgen blockade versus glandular androgen suppression in the treatment of hirsutism" showed that glandular androgen suppression is useless for the treatment of androgenic hirsutism, a condition close to our hair loss.
Cyproterone acetate does both. It prevents dht and test from binding to the cytosolic androgen receptor site and suppress the test production by suppressing luteinizing hormone.
At low to medium dose, spironolactone only acts peripherally.
I had good (very good) results by combining the two. Then I stopped oral spironolactone (was on 100mg daily) and lost almost all the gain in 2 months. I was still taking androcur (12,5 mg EOD).
I started oral spironolactone a couple of months before androcur. After adding androcur I've been loosing a lot of weight (my muscles literally disappeared).
So, from my experience, the huge depletion in test production you're going to experience with androcur will prevent you from... being a man, and will do nothing (or a little) for your hair loss. It will soften your body like crazy.
I would rather stay on oral spironolactone and dutasteride.
Add some Tamox if you have gyno.
I plan to go on dutasteride, drop the androcur, and use some DermMatch. I'm sick off all this. Popping pills 6 times a day, losing muscles, being hairy like a monkey (thanks to Loniten)...


thanks seaback for the feedback,


Has oral spironolactone(100mg daily) helped you(regrowth, etc..)?
Or the good acceptable results were due to cyproterone acetate?

What do you mean by "very good results" ? (regrowth, thickening of the existing hair, etc..)?

My goal is: once I will have the surgery, I will increase my oral spironolactone dose to 200-250mg per day(broken up into 3 seperate doses - morning/early afternoon/night) , to block as much androgen as I can without getting gyno. I see it as giving my existing regimen a bit of a boost(dutasteride that I already take). I was considering adding topical flutamide(strong topical anti-androgen) while taking dutasteride as well, but having been on hairloss boards for some time I came to realize that topicals (aside from minoxidil) rarely give acceptable results. I may add cyproterone acetate later if needed ... This combo(dutasteride and oral spironolactone)should definitely stop and even partially reverse my male pattern baldness.
 

GeminiX

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I take Androcur (cyproterone acetate) as part of my daily regimen and I *strongly* advise anyone to not take this very powerful drug on a self medication basis, if at all (especially as a vanity treatment).

At the very least it will cause permanent chemical castration and in almost every case, a complete loss of libido, erectile disfuntion and the loss of ability to climax though "traditional" means.

Unless you replace the hormones with something else (in my case oestrogen) Androcur will make you menopausal, and I can speak with considerable personal experience, the mood swings are madder than a bag of monkeys.

Take a look at my regimen below, this has not changed that much in a number of years, the changes to my body however have been dramatic:

Near 100% loss of body hair
Redistribution of body fat
Overall softening of skin
Breast development
Considerable reversal of hairloss
Changes in natural body-odour (wierd one that)
Fondless for kittens :)

Seriously though, Androcur is very powerful indeed, you would have to be very desperate (reckless even) to use it for hair loss.
 

neis

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GeminiX said:
I take Androcur (cyproterone acetate) as part of my daily regimen and I *strongly* advise anyone to not take this very powerful drug on a self medication basis, if at all (especially as a vanity treatment).

At the very least it will cause permanent chemical castration and in almost every case, a complete loss of libido, erectile disfuntion and the loss of ability to climax though "traditional" means.

Unless you replace the hormones with something else (in my case oestrogen) Androcur will make you menopausal, and I can speak with considerable personal experience, the mood swings are madder than a bag of monkeys.

Take a look at my regimen below, this has not changed that much in a number of years, the changes to my body however have been dramatic:

Near 100% loss of body hair
Redistribution of body fat
Overall softening of skin
Breast development
Considerable reversal of hairloss
Changes in natural body-odour (wierd one that)
Fondless for kittens :)

Seriously though, Androcur is very powerful indeed, you would have to be very desperate (reckless even) to use it for hair loss.


wtF...?
I am not talking about 100mg Cyproterone Acetate every day... 12,5 mg EOD is enough!
that dose is too high, even after combining it with oral spironolactone.. :shakehead:
 

GeminiX

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neis said:
wtF...?
I am not talking about 100mg Cyproterone Acetate every day... 12,5 mg EOD is enough!
that dose is too high, even after when combining it with oral spironolactone.. :shakehead:

Ah, my bad, missed that bit.

Still though, I started on 50mg back in the early days and even that had significant and rapid results for me.

You need to be extremely cautious with this stuff, and absolutely in no-way self prescribe. I have to have regular lipid and bp tests with my GP just because of how powerful this drug is.
 

GeminiX

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seaback said:
Even 50 mg daily is HUGE !

I don't know what to do with my aggressive hairloss. To have results I am happy with I have to growth boobs and be hairy like a monkey with no muscle.
sh*t. I hate my life. I look like sh*t without hair. But I don't want to be a hairy transsexual (not trying to offense you Geminix).

What should I do ? I feel so desperate today...
A hair transplant ? I'm only 23... and diffusing in the NW6 pattern.
I'm screwed. I lost all my confidence.
I can see no point going on in my life.

That's not offensive, quite funny actually (I know some hairy transsexuals, they scare the sh*t out of me).

You do need some counselling, someone to speak with and explain your problems too though. I completely understand where you're at, I was there myself with my own issues (its a very very dark place indeed, and its hard to get through). Heck, I only survived myself though luck.

Do you have other things going on in your life, or do you feel that everything is "grey"?
 

neis

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seaback said:
Hi Neis,

Has oral spironolactone(100mg daily) helped you(regrowth, etc..)?
Or the good acceptable results were due to cyproterone acetate?

Well I don't know... And I was taking oral minoxidil. And I don't trust my mind when it comes to hair appearance. But the combination of the three gave me wonderful results. Then I quited oral spironolactone and lost ground beside my constant taking of androcur and Loniten.

[quote:1vukut2n]What do you mean by "very good results" ? (regrowth, thickening of the existing hair, etc..)?
Yes regrowth and ultra thickening and darkening of the existing hair. No regrowth on the frontal part. Results were a full head of hair even in direct sunlight. No joke. I am a NW6 diffuse thinning. But it takes a couple of months to see results.

(broken up into 3 seperate doses - morning/early afternoon/night)
Yeah it's a good idea to broke it into several doses at the maximal effect is observed with a constant intake of the drug. BUT don't forget to take it with food, as the absorption of spironolactone is enhanced by food. 25mg with food = 50 mg without food. So take it while eating.
Start with spironolactone, add androcur later if needed but I advice you not.
If you really want regrowth try Loniten but you will have to quit after a few months as I did.
Don't bother with topical they do nothing (beside minoxidil for some).
You can have a look on PubMed and do some researches about relative binding affinity of anti androgenic compounds. Don't forget that cyproterone acetate and spironolactone are metabolized into several compounds with better/lower affinity to the androgen receptor. But results vary between articles so it's not easy to make your mind.[/quote:1vukut2n]


thanks seaback for the feedback,

very encouraging post!!! :)

Have you added Loniten and oral spironolactone at the same time to your regimen?

Adding oral anti-androgens to your regimen helped oral minoxidil(Loniten) to work better. I believe this is a more effective way of administering minoxidil to the follicles. I am pretty sure Loniten wouldn't be able to do anything without oral anti-androgens, if the male pattern baldness is too aggressive.

BTW, Have you ever used rogaine(topically)? Have you had any results from it, if you did?

I am using rogaine liquid 2x a day but with minimal results. I am scared to drop rogaine and add oral minoxidil to my regimen because of shedding. I am pretty sure that oral or topical minoxidil will do EXACTLY the same job after adding oral anti-androgens(oral spironolactone and maybe cyproterone acetate later)..
 

Nicky

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seaback said:
I've been on both.
Don't do that.
You will have to stop after a few months. It's not a lifelong solution.
The study "Peripheral androgen blockade versus glandular androgen suppression in the treatment of hirsutism" showed that glandular androgen suppression is useless for the treatment of androgenic hirsutism, a condition close to our hair loss.
Cyproterone acetate does both. It prevents dht and test from binding to the cytosolic androgen receptor site and suppress the test production by suppressing luteinizing hormone.
At low to medium dose, spironolactone only acts peripherally.
I had good (very good) results by combining the two. Then I stopped oral spironolactone (was on 100mg daily) and lost almost all the gain in 2 months. I was still taking androcur (12,5 mg EOD).
I started oral spironolactone a couple of months before androcur. After adding androcur I've been loosing a lot of weight (my muscles literally disappeared).
So, from my experience, the huge depletion in test production you're going to experience with androcur will prevent you from... being a man, and will do nothing (or a little) for your hair loss. It will soften your body like crazy.
I would rather stay on oral spironolactone and dutasteride.
Add some Tamox if you have gyno.
I plan to go on dutasteride, drop the androcur, and use some DermMatch. I'm sick off all this. Popping pills 6 times a day, losing muscles, being hairy like a monkey (thanks to Loniten)...

seaback,

good man for coming back and showing everyone. this has got to give a lot of people confidence in the treatments. nice work. .. :bravo:

I Have Some Questions 4 you:

1) As far as I can see you have an aggressive male pattern baldness. Is also your hair on the sides(sideburns, around and back of your ears, etc..- non male pattern baldness areas) of your head thinning? Except male pattern baldness areas (temples, frontal area, crown, top, etc..)

2) Have you ever taken a higher dose of cyproterone acetate? more than 12,5 EOD?


BTW stick with 100mg oral spironolactone, topical or oral minoxidil(topical minoxidil is the only topical that can give the same results as oral minoxidil) while taking a DHT inhibitor as well. Oral spironolactone is quite a safe drug from everything that I have read about. And is even used to help livers in certain disease cases if memory serves correct. IMO Oral spironolactone or CA will do the trick. This potent regimen will help you maintain what you have or will even help you get good(maybe amazing) regrowth, helping minoxidil's job!!
 

neis

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seaback,


thanks again for your reply.
If finasteride hasn't helped you, try dutasteride while taking a small dose of oral spironolactone, if you don't want to take high doses of oral anti-androgens.


Just my 2 cents
 

Nicky

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seaback,

English is not my native language so sometimes I don't understand very well. Was it ironic ?

No, it wasn't ironic. I want to thank you for sharing your success.

[quote:3qbhqch8]As far as I can see you have an aggressive male pattern baldness. Is also your hair on the sides(sideburns, around and back of your ears, etc..- non male pattern baldness areas) of your head thinning? Except male pattern baldness areas (temples, frontal area, crown, top, etc..)
Yes, absolutely. It's not that bad but it's thinning. Actually, it's not thinning, it's just falling down...[/quote:3qbhqch8]

Maybe you didn't understand, what I asked you.
I mean are you also thinning on the sides(for example: sideburns, around and back of your ears)?
 

Nicky

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I did understand. And yes, I was loosing my hair around my ears. My sideburns lost a lot of density as well. It was thinning but mainly falling down (without the thinning process)... Actually it's the same on top : no thinning, hair is thick like electric wire but still falling ! Strange.

Thanks seaback for the feedback,

I just can't understand why some people thin also on sides(around ears, sideburns, etc..). Maybe it's High norwood classification but I haven't seen anyone that is bald to be bald and in those areas. Have the treatments helped you in those areas?

Have you heard of diffuse alopecia areata ? It's like male pattern baldness but also thinning on non-male pattern baldness areas like the sides, siburns, around ears, etc..
 
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