Yes...Another Saw Palmetto Topic. Help?

[HatTrickster]

Hey...

I've been reading up...and it seems like Saw is close to being as effective as finasteride is at keeping the prostate in good health. If that is so....and DHT has a major role in the enlargement of the prostate...why is it that there seems to be a general attitude that it's worthless for hairloss? Just curious.

I don't understand how it can be so great for the prostate, but not so great for the hair....because from where I'm standing, if it's good for one...since the cause of both is primarily the same (as far as I know), then it should be good for both....eh? Even if it isn't as dramatically great for hairloss as finasteride...shouldn't it do at least something?...Like stop a fair amount of loss at least?

I'm thinking maybe it's worth a shot, it's fairly cheap.

Anyone have any info or first hand experience for me? It would be much appreciated.

 

[HatTrickster]

http://www.stopgettingsick.com/template ... fm?id=5980

 

[Guest]

My recollection is that there have been studies that show that SP impacts the type of DHT deriviative that enlarges prostates, but not the type that attacks hair follicles. (types 1 and 2!)

Check further on the research and you should find that data.

Brucelee

 

[HairlossTalk]

It does affect both types of DHT, however it has not affected DHT enough to actually stop or reverse hair loss in any clinical trials.

Conversely, it has been shown to help with the type that is more predominant in the Prostate, and has been shown to reduce prostate size in clinical trials.

This is the major difference between Propecia and Saw Palmetto.

In other words, just because something inhibits the right type of 5ar enzyme, this does not mean it will grow hair, or inhibit loss.

Propecia is the only clinically proven 5ar / DHT inhibitor that has been able to do this in clinical trials.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Guest]

Nice job HairLossTalk.com!

BL

 

[X190]

It does affect both types of DHT, however it has not affected DHT enough to actually stop or reverse hair loss in any clinical trials.

Conversely, it has been shown to help with the type that is more predominant in the Prostate, and has been shown to reduce prostate size in clinical trials.

This is the major difference between Propecia and Saw Palmetto.

In other words, just because something inhibits the right type of 5ar enzyme, this does not mean it will grow hair, or inhibit loss.

Propecia is the only clinically proven 5ar / DHT inhibitor that has been able to do this in clinical trials.

HairLossTalk.com

That's why I take em' both :wink:

XL

 

[Stingray]

No, Saw palmetto isn't a DHT inhibitor i thought...I was under the impression that it was an anti-androgen. It competes for the receptors. But I guess that would cause your body to produce less 5-AR to produce DHT if the receptors are being stimulated artificially. And since propecia is already reducing 2-5AR to near nothing, it would reduce the production of 1-5AR as well. I'm thinking propecia + saw palmetto = cheap substitute for avodart (though not as effective of course)

It makes sense...but don't take my word for it...it's just a theory.

 

[Trial&Error]

I have experimented with many shampoos & herbal treatments for years.

At 18 I began to take on my dads hair pattern.
High temples, & forehead, thin/diffused on top but all there.
He no longer has a hairloss issue, has regrown everything after a few yrs, prostate removal & other nerve damage due to prostate cancer.
He is been cancer free, but I don't want to end up in his situation.

As a precaution to me getting cancer I had decided to take SP at age 21.
I noticed after a year my hair thickened somewhat, back to when I was 14-16.
I have always taken tons of other herbs & vitamins.
The reason I feel the MSM & SP help is as follows.
Experimenting with "food & supplement" fasting due to intermittent allergic reactions I have isolated the only two things that help hair health over 6 years time.

SP & MSM
Discontinuing SP & MSM a year ago, I have noticed the top began to thin again at a very fast rate, diffused & temproal receding.
I started to look like my dad when he was my age.
It happened so fast, I also started getting pimples, shed very fast.
People started asking if I was under stress cause my hair wasn't looking healthy - some people thought I was on chemo or something.

Back on the combo again just for a month, I have noticed some of the vellous blonde & peachfuzz hairs have darkened, & the diffuse thinning on top has begun to refill.

I have a wholesale club pass pic & a employee pass that I can see the difference in 1 year.
I went from a Norwood I which I always was to a NW3 diffusing on vertex.
I have reversed the vertex, & am almost between II & III.
Hopefully I'll get to I again or I will try to get on Finasteride to speed it up.
Its defnitely a DHT issue with me, & its hereditary with the Prostate cancer.
I noticed less desire to "go" on the SP after a week, better ability to hold it longer & less frequency of urination. I feel "younger" for some reason.

Saw Palmetto 3X normal dose (both berries & extract 85%) day, every other night 2 eve doses w/ MSM.
I wash hair with baby shampoo mixed w/ tea tree oil & SP extract.
It seems to prevent the pimples - & the shampoo stops me from scratching my head. Before shampooing I rinse my head with as hot of water as I can tolerate, shampoo sit for a couple min & repeat.

I recently read a post about the MSM, I was taking it in conjunction w/Clacium & Chrondrotin due to a fam history of arthritis.
I stopped taking it due to a possible reaction to Sulfur which I am allergic to certain medication.

I am back on it w/ no reactions (It was a food allergy anyways)

I have overcome some of the hereditary issues, such as hypertension & cholesterol by taking supplements & exercising.

Hopefully I'll beat hair loss. The SP in high doses seems to have an impact, while the MSM seems to accelerate the SP effects.
A note my brother is at the same stage as me & he's younger.
I advised him to take the SP & MSM. I will keep an eye on progress.

Sorry to rant on this is probably ovekill. I am just posting this as these results long term study on myself. I never put everything together until this yr when I noticed the quick loss. I will do everything I can to help others.

 

[semi_fallout]

what's MSM?

 

[Guest]

I took SP for many years along with MSM for about two. No results to speak of. Neither has any real data that it will address male pattern baldness although MSM clearly speeds up hair growth rate.

 

[Luke]

what is MSM??

 

[Guest]

You may have heard about MSM. After all, its value as a "super nutrient" has generated some buzz over the past few years. Earl L. Mindell, R.Ph, Ph.D and author of Earl Mindell's Vitamin Bible has dedicated an entire book to the topic of MSM.

When we created the new HairTopia vitamin at HairBoutique.com we discussed the pros and cons of adding MSM to the formula with many different experts. It was highly recommended by the chemists that we consulted with that we add MSM to the formula because it has been proven to really help with hair growth.

Of course we did not add MSM to HairTopia on a simple whim. We did a lot of research, read a lot of articles and finally decided that MSM would definitely enhance the hair strengthening and growth properties of the HairTopia vitamins. MSM was added to the HairTopia Amino Acid formula.

So what exactly is MSM? Official MSM is Methylsulfonylmethane. Quite simply MSM is a food that comes from the ocean, is water soluble, and is not a drug, or a food additive. MSM is the 3rd largest ingredient found in the human body.

MSM is a natural form of organic sulfonyl sulfur compound that is found in the fluid of all living organisms. It is present in a variety of foods, including most fresh raw fruits and green vegetables, milk, meat, seafood, and some grains. It is also found in many common beverages such as milk, coffee and tea. It is, in essence, a pure white, odorless, essentially tasteless, water-soluble crystalline solid sulfur powder.

Why does MSM help with the development of longer and stronger hair? Various scientific studies have proven that MSM contributes a definite normalizing effect on body functions.

The sulfur normally provided to the body by MSM is required for healthy collagen and keratin which are essential for healthy hair, skin and nails. MSM also has proven antioxidant benefits which can disrupt or alter damaging chain reactions of lipid peroxidation in the cell membranes.

MSM is considered to be one of the safest substances in biology, similar in toxicity to water. MSM and its related compounds are the source of 85 percent of the sulfur found in all living organisms. Many researchers believe that sulfur, is a sorely neglected mineral nutrient and plays an indispensable role in human nutrition.

MSM is volatile and is easily lost during even moderate processing. Cooking, drying, smoking, pickling, and long-term storage can deplete the MSM content of food. Unless the human diet is composed primarily of raw foods, it is unlikely that sufficient MSM will be ingested to significantly contribute to the nutritional sulfur requirement.
MSM Sulfonyl Is Safe

 

[Luke]

well, thanks , the most complete answer i´ve ever read!! thanks again !

 

[Guest]

well, thanks , the most complete answer i´ve ever read!! thanks again !

You are welcome. I used MSM for several years and it really does strengthen nails and make them grow faster. Hair grows faster also.

Good luck!

 

[X190]

well, thanks , the most complete answer i´ve ever read!! thanks again !

You are welcome. I used MSM for several years and it really does strengthen nails and make them grow faster. Hair grows faster also.

Good luck!

Does it make other things grow? 8O

XL

 

[Guest]

![/quote]

Does it make other things grow? 8O

XL[/quote]

Sadly no!

 

[X190]

[/quote]

Sadly no![/quote]

Thanks god! I've worked hard to maintain my 6-pack!

XL

 

[newhairdude]

I used SP for 6 months, 380 MG Berry extract and 180 mg fatty acid extract.

I found my hairloss certainly slowed down significantly.
I don't think its miracle stuff BUT I do believe it does help 2 slow down your hairloss. I didn't really notice any regrowth.

 

[Scott]

Trial&Error,

I noticed in your message you said that you washed your hair with as hot of water as you could possibly stand. I'm not an expert and I really don't know if this matters or not but I remember my mother who is a nurse talking about using ice cold water and Ice to keep cancer patients who are going through kemo to maintain there hair and or keep it from falling out. I know that the hair loss is caused by totally different things but I thought that maybe you might be interested in that. I really don't know why or how that stopped or slowed the loss but thats what she said....

8O