Who here takes dutasteride every other day?

[Guest]

Are we talking a difference? what's the story compared to taking it daily.

The truth.

Some peeps would like to guess that it's alright every other day, but is it?!

 

[CCS]

0.1mg/day inhibits 3% of 5ar1. So it should be safe from a nerological standpoint. It inhibits 86% of type 2.

0.5mg/day inhibits 50% of 5ar1. So there is a reasonable chance 0.5 mg/day could affect the brain. It inhibits 99% of type 2, from the graph.

0.5mg EOD inhibits 18% of type 1, and 95% of type 2, from reading the graph.

From where Brian drew the vertical line for 2.5mg/day, it inhibits almost 100% of type 2 and 84% of type 1.

Look at the graph on myspace.com and judge for yourself. you have to click on pics. It shows DHT inhibition with dose blood concentration of dutasteride. Brian drew lines where the daily dose matches up with the steadystate concentration. I varified the 0.5mg/day dose on another graph, the Brian figured out the 0.1 and 2.5mg/day doses. I also did the EOD myself.

Before Merk decided what dose to use in phaseIII trials, they found that 0.2 mg/day finasteride regrows 82% as much hair as 1mg/day, which regrows 83% as much hair as 5mg/day.

I'm unable to find the phaseII hair count results again, but I remembered that when proscar had grown 95 hairs, 2.5mg/day dutastide had grown about 155 hairs. 0.1mg/day was as strong as proscar 5mg/day, and 0.5mg dutasteride/day was between the two. 0.05 mg/day was about 70% as strong as the proscar.

 

[CCS]

on a different graph, proscar inhibited 75% of DHT in the first few days, and 0.1mg/day dutasteride took 28 days to bring levels down to the same amount.

http://www.geocities.com/bryan50001/dutasteride2b.htm

0.5mg/day brought it down just as fast, and then reached its lower peak in 28 days, though that is when they stopped giving more drug.

I preloaded with 3 per day for 3 days and switched to 2x per week, though now I'm thinking of 3x per week.

 

[CCS]

0.5 mg/day is more therapudic than EOD, but it costs more and the DHT in the brain from 5ar1 is reduced 50%.

I think for the reasons I gave, EOD is the best dose, but 0.1mg/day is a cheap dose that works as well as 5mg finasteride per day.

Finasteride has a halflife of 4 hours, and your side effects are gone fast when you stop. 0.1mg/day has a half life of around 2-3 days. 0.5mg/day has a halflife of 5 weeks.

I used a loading dose because I doubt I will get side effects, nor would getting them worry me. If you are worried about side effects, do not use a loading dose.

 

[bubka]

it seems that 2x a week COULD be plenty... just keeping tabs for a backup

 

[chromedomefear]

Are we talking a difference? what's the story compared to taking it daily.

The truth.

Some peeps would like to guess that it's alright every other day, but is it?!

I don't think Thierry's topic is being answered completely. And I would like to get a better handle of the subject as well.

I'm about to make the switch over from propecia to avodart. I've been discussing it on another thread, and just finished reading almost all of the pertinent ones here in the dutasteride forum....yet, I still see a mixed bag of ideas....some of which are from some posts that are not too recent. Some people are taking dutasteride every other day, some swear by taking it daily, and some say 3 times a week. Some of the main reasonings for people making their decisions is shedding, side effects, 5ar1, and cost. However, many of the posts seemed to be very specualtive, and were mostly from Newbies and Junior Posters.....if that means anything.

It would be nice to get some clarity on this from others with hard experience or knowledge.....like Bryan. Collegechemistrystudent, I've appreciated all your posts, and your ideas make sense to me (the ones that don't involve chemical formulas and graphs, anyway....I weld metal hundreds of feet under the ocean, I have no idea how to comprehend branched chemical chains and pH equations). I'm just curious as to what some other people have to say before I go and start popping avodart 3x a week.

 

[CCS]

every other day and 3x per week are very close in terms of safety, therapudics, and price. I recommend 3x instead of EOD because you can look at your calender to see if it is Monday, wednesday, or friday. If you take it EOD, you have to remember if you took it yesterday or not.

 

[jc444]

However, many of the posts seemed to be very specualtive, and were mostly from Newbies and Junior Posters.....if that means anything.

I wouldn't discount posts from newbies and jnr posters. There are many well experienced people on this baord who dont spend all their free time posting on here. In fact you could argue, the ones that have been members for some time and have few posts are the ones who are actually doing something right.

Anyway, Im in the same boat, I want to start dutasteride but have been left a little unsure of what approach to take even after much research. However I have decided that I will take 1 propecia or 1mg finasteride per day and 0.5mg dutasteride every three days. The reason is well, firstly from what college says, i think this should give me max type ll reduction, and enough type l reduction without messing with my brain function.

Secondly, dutasteride every 3rd day should reduce the chance of any dutasteride induced sheds and sides.

Thirdly, ill keep taking the propecia daily mainly because im terrified to leave it, but also its the back up if my dutasteride is fake or for some reason it doesn't help me like I expect it too.

Now it is quite possible that this approach isn't necessary but to me it seems reasonable and cautious and I can always drop the propecia and increase the dutasteride to daily if all goes well.

 

[CCS]

very good. one every three days is stronger than finasteride 5mg. only one misconception: your goal should not be reduce "enough type 1." I was trying to explain that the ideal dose would get rid of all type 2 and not touch the type 1.

I highly doubt reducing the DHT produced by 15% will affect your brain, since the 80% reduction of proecia of DHT in the prostate gives erectile problems to less than 2% of men. I was pointing out that 1 pill every 5 days won't touch the 5ar1 in your brain, while 3 pills per week will get rid of a lot more DHT from type2 in your follicle, and only reduce the DHT from 5ar1 by 15%.

You once per three days in between the two, and should fine.

people doing once a day will get probably 5% better results than EOD people, and at twice the price and 3x the 5ar1 DHT inhibition.

 

[Jacky81]

I did take dutasteride during 2 month (after taking it evervy day for 3-4 month) 4x a week. What i considered was that i got more acne.
Acne is in my case a hormonical problem.

So i suppose: more acne, more danger for my hair. Now i take it every day again. There is less acne again...

It is a shame that glaxo stopped the studies about avodart. I think dutasteride is a more effective drug than finasteride, but the optimal dosage should be defined by specialists/scientists and not from us... :wink:

 

[Felk]

It is a shame that glaxo stopped the studies about avodart. I think dutasteride is a more effective drug than finasteride, but the optimal dosage should be defined by specialists/scientists and not from us... :wink:

Ich bin den gleichen Meinung...

 

[ecs]

I am taking 4 times a week, started in early June.
I can't see why a smaller dose will do a worse damage if there is any. I think it is safe to assume that if Avodart does trigger a shedding period, starting with a smaller dose should bring about a comparatively gradual, less disastrous shedding, and the dose can be increased to once daily after the shedding has subsided, if desired.

 

[chromedomefear]

Still.....anyone with a founded background or research have any knowledge to give?....not an opinion, hunch, or assumption

 

[CCS]

Testosterone is a problem in hair loss, as are all androgens. DHT is 30 times more potent than testosterone or any other androgen. But the extra testonsterone in the scalp when Avodar is used is just the testostosterone that normally would have been turned into DHT. The scalp does not make testostosterone. It gets it from the testes and some glands through the blood that goes everywhere. I guess the cirulation is small enough and the 5ar2 prevelent enough that the levels can spike before dilution. A good way to test this is to compare scalp testosterone levels to areas where 5ar is not and we know testosterone is not used much. I would predict the levels would be higher than what they are in the scalp. Without taking a sample from a neck artery, I must point out that if testosterone were such a problem, 2.5 mg/day dutasteride would not have regrown more hair than 0.5mg/day in FDA phase II trials.

This is another reason I'm against high dutasteride levels. There is no point in using high doses to try taking DHT to zero becaus this does not do much more good when the testosterone is still there. The same concentration binds to receptors 3% as much as DHT does. If you inhibit 99% of DHT, and want to get that last 1%, remember you have 99x as much testosterone as DHT, plus the extra testosterone that is there without Avodart. Instead of going from 1% to 0%, you are really going from 6% to 5% of the androgen binding power, assuming that eliminating all DHT does a 150% increase in testosterone. That is not a dramatic enough drop to justify the increased risks, since the DHT from 5ar1 won't enter the follicles that much. It is better to use a topical anti-androgen instead.

I really think the jump from 2 to 3 pills per week is the best increase you will get, and after that you are not getting rid of the other androgens that are the biggest factor. 2.5mg/day does regrow more hair than 0.5, but at the risk of 5ar1 in the brain, which by fact has unknown possibilities, though none Aplunk1 has noticed.

Now that I take testosterone into consideration, I belive 3x per week combined with spironolactone cream or fluridil would regrow more hair than 2.5mg/day.

 

[CCS]

there are three main ways you can get side effects. If you have prostate cancer, it can make it worse. The more you take, the more your liver has to metabolise. And some organs may need as much DHT as they have, and not tolerate more than a 50% drop. More people notice this in their penis than in their brain, but that is because most people take finasteride, which does not affect the DHT maker in the brain. Avodart does, and 7x per week reduces it by half. I'd feel safer reducing it by 15%, and it is a fact that the average guy's brain DHt will be reduced by 15% on 3x per week. I'll post the graphs on a geocities site when I get the time. Right now they are on myspace, and someone pointed out to me that you can't view the pics without joining, so I will take down that site soon. I think HairLossTalk.com may have web pages for members.

 

[amsterdam]

So, CollegeChemistry, would you say the optimal dose (taking into account possible health risks related to low DHT) would be .5mg Dutasteride every 3 days? or .5mg every other day?

thanks

 

[CCS]

either of those is good for hair. as for risks with low DHT, i think if i go impotent or lose sex drive or get chest tenderness or can't build muscle, i will know not to take as much. but during my 2 years with 1.25 mg/day finasteride, and recent weak starging with 3 Avodart per day for 3 days and switching to MWF, i have not had any side effects at all. The prostate can handle 80% reduction from finasteride, and it looks like i can handle 95% reduction from my dutasteride.

the guy doing one every three days is parking right in the middle of my 2x per week and 3x per week suggestions. i don't have acne. everyone can place there bets, since even the guys who email me praise don't follow my suggested regimen. My brother is using my regimen, except with diluted minoxidil once a day and no topical anti-androgens since they cost too much.

i'm about to start visiting this site just a few times a week, report the results of the tests, and then just post before pictures and monthly after pictures while i focus on school.

 

[chromedomefear]

No offense to anyone....but there are a lot of words like "i guess", and "assuming", and "I think".......and hence....

Still.....anyone with a founded background or research have any knowledge to give?....not an opinion, hunch, or assumption.

 

[CCS]

what kind of facts do you want? facts about the optimal dose? no one has done experiments, so know one will answer that. researchers know that the 2.5mg per day regrows close to 25% more hair than 0.5 mg per day, which regrows about 25% more hair than 0.1 mg per day, according to the phaseII FDA trials. That said, EOD does not look like it will regrow as much as an every day dose.

I've been stating facts about how much DHT is inhibited and where. My opinion came in about what area has an acceptable level or risk, and I errored much more concervatively for hair loss than the FDA did for prostate treatment.

We also know that serveral men completed the FDA trail that is close to 6 months long, and I know from graphs I've seen men who take 10 mg/day for 28 days have almost 100% serum DHT inhibition, and when they stop at 28 days will still have 95% of serum DHT inhibited at 84 days. Almost all of that DHT comes from the type 1 enzyme in skin, since the type 2 enzyme is still almost completely inhibited at 84 days. Men on 1mg per day will reach 93% serum DHT inhibition at 28 days and after stopping at day 28 will still have 30% inhibited. 5mg finasteride reaches 100% DHT levels 10 days after stoping, and 0.1 mg/day reaches normmal levels 60 days after stopping.

 

[amsterdam]

thanks for the reply. I think I will start taking dutas .5mg every other day, in concert with minoxidil. I have been on finasteride for quite a while with no noticeable change.. guess i'll ride out this regimen until HM arrives.

thanks again