Trying Propecia...

[Guest]

Are any of the ladies here on Propecia? I'm trying to decide if I should try it or not and would like feedback from someone who is actually on it. It is beyond me why it would not work in women, and I'm not planning on having children any time soon. My derm is willing to prescribe it, so I'm thinking 'why not?' but at the same time would really like to hear from anyone who has already taking the 'woman on Propecia plunge.'

--
Sessa

 

[Guest]

Are any of the ladies here on Propecia? I'm trying to decide if I should try it or not and would like feedback from someone who is actually on it. It is beyond me why it would not work in women, and I'm not planning on having children any time soon. My derm is willing to prescribe it, so I'm thinking 'why not?' but at the same time would really like to hear from anyone who has already taking the 'woman on Propecia plunge.'

--
Sessa

Well because it is proven to deal with MALE pattern baldness. To my knowledge, we have no data on its use in woman.

Why not is, well why play russian roulette with your hormones??

Think at least twice!

 

[HairlossTalk]

There was a study done on post menopausal women who were experiencing hair loss that was specifically attributable to their hormone changes during menopause. These women were not ever going to use their uterus again for child bearing. The propecia group showed slightly better results than the placebo group, but it wasn't significant.

There isnt a single doctor in this country who would prescribe it to a woman with the knowledge of their peers, as far as I know. If they do prescribe it, they'd do so "off the record" because of it has been completely banned for use in women by the FDA and Merck, who could have stood to make money off its sale to women. I have attended several dermatological conferences and hair loss conferences where it is publicly agreed among the 500+ doctors present that propecia is *not* a safe option for women.

Additionally, just taking something because you heard it works in another type of human (males) is a very bad way to treat hair loss. Propecia works on specific hormones to do specific things identified to cause Male pattern baldness. A womens hormonal makeup is very different, and for this product to work in a woman, she would have to have a definitive diagnosis of a condition similar or identical to men's hair loss.

That is ... hair loss caused by a genetic trigger that begins in your 20's that makes certain follicles susceptible to DHT, the most potent *male* hormone.

HairLossTalk.com

 

[Guest]

Well, I (me, Humpty, cant be bothered signing in) was "nudge nudge wink wink" advised to try it last Thursday by an endo, in the company of her peers. This is Britain, but Finasteride isn't available by prescription to women here either. I was discussing this in another thread, and I find it hard, frankly, to accept the logic behind the banning of finasteride to women. If there was a blanket ban of anti-androgens to women, fine. But there is not. Roaccutane (sp!) is being prescribed to women for acne like sweeties here, and they're happy enough to prescribe me me with oral Spironolacatone (without the insistence on birth control) or Cyproterone Acetate. So it seems the reasoning runs thus "you can take Roaccutane for acne, but you must take birth control in conjunction - indeed we won't prescribe it to you without - because it is a powerful anti-androgen which can have feminising effects on the male foetus; you can take Oral Spironolatone, which is a powerful anti androgen and may have feminising effects on the male foetus. However you don't have to take mandatory birth control with this.; But you can't take Finasteride at all as this may have feminising effects on the male foetus if taken when pregnant."

Now if there is a cunning logic in this argument that I'm missing somewhere then please feel free to point it out to me, but at the moment, it seems a purely arbitrary decision. I put this to my dermo and she merely smiled. There was an interesting article on the subject over at the "other" hair loss site, which speculated that the reason why finasteride has not been prescribed to women is because the drug company are trying to ward off future law suits from halfwits who took the drug when pregnant and 9 months later produced a three headed hermaphrodite. But I haven't yet been able to locate any literature indicating a higher risk associated with finasteride use than with oral spironolactone, cyproterone actecate or any other anti androgen regularly prescribed to women.

Nor do I see any reason to believe finasteride would be less efficacious in pre menopausal women with normal androgen levels and hypersensitivity to dht than it is in men with the same hypersensitivity.

The short version: I do not believe it. :hairy:

 

[Guest]

>>>Nor do I see any reason to believe finasteride would be less efficacious in pre menopausal women with normal androgen levels and hypersensitivity to dht than it is in men with the same hypersensitivity.

Oh, and in reference to that statement, if there were any clinical studies out there which demonstrated finasteride was inefficacious in pre menopausal women who fit the above conditions, then that would certainly be a compelling enough reason not to take it. As far as I can see however, there aren't. If anyone knows of any studies, or an increased risk associated with finasteride use relative to say, oral spironolactone or roaccutane, I'd be grateful for a link.

 

[Guest]

Well, I (me, Humpty, cant be bothered signing in) was "nudge nudge wink wink" advised to try it last Thursday by an endo, in the company of her peers. This is Britain, but Finasteride isn't available by prescription to women here either. I was discussing this in another thread, and I find it hard, frankly, to accept the logic behind the banning of finasteride to women. If there was a blanket ban of anti-androgens to women, fine. But there is not. Roaccutane (sp!) is being prescribed to women for acne like sweeties here, and they're happy enough to prescribe me me with oral Spironolacatone (without the insistence on birth control) or Cyproterone Acetate. So it seems the reasoning runs thus "you can take Roaccutane for acne, but you must take birth control in conjunction - indeed we won't prescribe it to you without - because it is a powerful anti-androgen which can have feminising effects on the male foetus; you can take Oral Spironolatone, which is a powerful anti androgen and may have feminising effects on the male foetus. However you don't have to take mandatory birth control with this.; But you can't take Finasteride at all as this may have feminising effects on the male foetus if taken when pregnant."

Now if there is a cunning logic in this argument that I'm missing somewhere then please feel free to point it out to me, but at the moment, it seems a purely arbitrary decision. I put this to my dermo and she merely smiled. There was an interesting article on the subject over at the "other" hair loss site, which speculated that the reason why finasteride has not been prescribed to women is because the drug company are trying to ward off future law suits from halfwits who took the drug when pregnant and 9 months later produced a three headed hermaphrodite. But I haven't yet been able to locate any literature indicating a higher risk associated with finasteride use than with oral spironolactone, cyproterone actecate or any other anti androgen regularly prescribed to women.

Nor do I see any reason to believe finasteride would be less efficacious in pre menopausal women with normal androgen levels and hypersensitivity to dht than it is in men with the same hypersensitivity.

The short version: I do not believe it. :hairy:

Given there is no proven efficacy of finasteride on female hair loss (is there?), why would you want to take it. Do you enjoy being a guinea pig?

 

[Guest]

>>>Given there is no proven efficacy of finasteride on female hair loss (is there?), why would you want to take it. Do you enjoy being a guinea pig?

Because I'm going bald at the kind of rate which would induce me to try it? Because the endo I saw thinks its a good idea? Because there are three conventional treatments available on prescription in the United Kingdom, one of which has exacerbated the FMB, the other isn't having much effect (although obviously I'm going to give it plenty of time) and the third will mess my hormonal levels just as surely as finasteride? Because they've ran clinical tests on the use of finasteride in hirsuite (sp?) women and they've yet to grow three heads?

Quite obviously the "tried and tested" treatments are the best route to go down. Only a nitwit would dispute this. And oral spironolactone, CP, Dianette and Rogaine are the treatments that I usually see being recommended to women with Androgenetic Alopecia. What I cannot find however, on this site or any other, is information pertaining to premenopausal women with completely normal androgen levels, no family history of premature female OR male pattern balding, and aggressive Androgenetic Alopecia. Either this is an oversight (on my part or the site's) or such cases are very rare. I've been told to put it down to increased sensitivity to the effects of DHT, which I understand to be the mechanism behind baldness in men. I abided by conventional wisdom, went on the Dianette, (even though I have normal androgen levels) and the FPB accelerated 100%. I began balding on the crown, and at this juncture, six months after I came off the drug, I have next to no hair left on the frontal region of the head and not much more on the rest of the scalp. I'm taking the 2% Rogaine (only hair loss drug available to women in the UK by prescription) but given the sheer speed and aggression of the hair loss, don't want to rely just on topical preparations. Which leaves spironolactone and Finasteride.


So if finasteride works for men, then it seems to me there's a prima facie case at least its use in women with this same hypersensitivity and normal androgen levels? My feeling is that whatever I take, oral spironolactone or finasteride, I am exposing myself to some degree of risk. At any rate, I'm willing to try. Should I experience very adverse side effects with finasteride, obviously I'll be off that in two shakes of a dead lamb's tail.

 

[Guest]

There isnt a single doctor in this country who would prescribe it to a woman with the knowledge of their peers, as far as I know. If they do prescribe it, they'd do so "off the record" because of it has been completely banned for use in women by the FDA and Merck, who could have stood to make money off its sale to women. I have attended several dermatological conferences and hair loss conferences where it is publicly agreed among the 500+ doctors present that propecia is *not* a safe option for women.
HairLossTalk.com

Can you give me an idea of why these doctors have present that propecia is not a safe option for women, HTL?

Given there is no proven efficacy of finasteride on female hair loss (is there?), why would you want to take it. Do you enjoy being a guinea pig?

Bruce

Why would I want to take any of the following to treat FPB?


Flutamide - 250mg orally 3 times a day
» Cimetidine - 300mg orally 5 times a day
» Dexamethasone - 0.25 to 0.75mg per night
» Cyproterone Acetate - 50 to 150mg a day (not available in US)
» Desogestrel: Desogen, Ortho-Cept
» Norgestimate: Ortho-Cyclen, Ortho Tri-Cyclen (yes it can potentially grow hair too!)
» Norethindrone: Micronor, Nor-OD, Ovcon-35, Brevicon, Modicon, Ortho-Novum 7/7/7, Ortho-Novum 10-11, Tri-Norinyl, Norinyl and Orthol/35
» Ethynodiol diacetate: Demulen 1/35
» Levonorgestrel: TriphasilfTri-Levlen, Nordette
» Norgestrel: Lo/Ovral, Ovrefte, Ovral
» Norethindrone acetate: Loestrin 1/20, Loestrin 1.5/30
» Gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists
» Leuprolide (Lupron-Depot), 3.75 mg/month intramuscularly, plus 0.625 mg conjugated estrogens and cyclic medroxyprogesterone acetate 10 mg (from days 1-12 of each month)
» Nafarelin (400 [Lg intranasally twice a day), plus Norinyl 1/35 tablets daily for 21 of 28 days, orally

There is no proven efficacy of these treatments in arresting FBM and yet they are still used to treat the condition. This site says so. So if we are going on the mere fact that finasteride hasn't been shown to produce "cosmetically acceptable hair growth" in premenopausal women - rather a misnomer since no such studies have ever been ran - then the same applies to any of the above antiandrogens.

 

[Guest]

I would not put ANY of those chemicals in MY body if they had no proven efficacy in fighting MY medical condition related to losing MY hair.

That is quite different from dropping some stuff on your scalp, with systemic absorption issues taken into consideration of course.

That is just me. You can do whatever you do, as it is your body. Experiment away!

Good luck, hope you don't grow three heads or arms!

:freaked2:

 

[Guest]

I would not put ANY of those chemicals in MY body if they had no proven efficacy in fighting MY medical condition related to losing MY hair.

Yeah, you wouldn't Brucey. But this site, whilst not endorsing any of the aforementioned, does at least flag them up them as options. Also, bear in mind that FDA approval means jackey-dey squat from where I'm posting. If its not been approved by the BMA, its not safe. Period. I'm also assuming that not all of these medications are topical? Even if they were, I understand people can still be susceptible to systemic absorption.

That is just me. You can do whatever you do, as it is your body. Experiment away! Good luck, hope you don't grow three heads or arms!

All the more hands to slap you with, Grandmama. :lol: Seriously though, I informed the endos and gp of my intention to take Finasteride. If any one of them had grabbed me by the shoulders and shrieked "for the love of all things holy! don't do it woman!", you can be assured I wouldn't do it. I don't do pain. And its goes without saying I'd rather be bald than knock out seriously deformed kids.

 

[Guest]

I would not put ANY of those chemicals in MY body if they had no proven efficacy in fighting MY medical condition related to losing MY hair.

Yeah, you wouldn't Brucey. But this site, whilst not endorsing any of the aforementioned, does at least flag them up them as options. Also, bear in mind that FDA approval means jackey-dey squat from where I'm posting. If its not been approved by the BMA, its not safe. Period. I'm also assuming that not all of these medications are topical? Even if they were, I understand people can still be susceptible to systemic absorption.

That is just me. You can do whatever you do, as it is your body. Experiment away! Good luck, hope you don't grow three heads or arms!

All the more hands to slap you with, Grandmama. :lol: Seriously though, I informed the endos and gp of my intention to take Finasteride. If any one of them had grabbed me by the shoulders and shrieked "for the love of all things holy! don't do it woman!", you can be assured I wouldn't do it. I don't do pain. And its goes without saying I'd rather be bald than knock out seriously deformed kids.

Good luck.

Have you considered topical arginine. No downside as far as I can see and some researchers believe it is the real deal (Dr. Proctor and Pickhart.

I am going to give it a go.

 

[mayalopecia]

Hello Humpty Dumpty, Bruce Lee

I am not officially advocating the use of finasteride to treat FPB. It is not approved by the FDA for such use. However, I am of the opinion that the relative obscurity of female hair loss issues and their subsequent lack of treatment availability leaves ladies like us in a bind. Either we can choose to accept the status quo and follow the advice of Merck, or we can do some research and make decisions for ourselves.

For god's sake. We are 20-something WOMEN who are going BALD. I understand the anguish young men may feel, but ours is a secret disease, and therefore more upsetting and unacceptable. Since the medical establishment has been lax in addressing the issue of female hairloss, we must make do with what is available.

I would not tell anyone to use a drug based on anecdotal evidence, but the fact is, I know of several women who have used finasteride with great success. Additionally, finasteride is used to treat female hirsutism and has in fact been documented and studied in this regard. If it is safe for a similar androgen-dependent condition, I fail to see why Humpty Dumpty cannot take this information under consideration and make a decision. She is obviously no slouch in the IQ department.

-maya

 

[Guest]

I never said that she can not nor should not take finasteride. I specifically said that it was her decision and that I WOULD NOT DO SO.

Just my way of looking at the risk/reward issues and no one elses.

With regard to your statement about woman's hairloss being more upsetting, that is totally subjective and in some sense, irrlevent. We have had near suicidal men on this board and some who simply shave their head. It is what it is!

I see the level of "upset" as a bogey, the real issue is the individuals' perception of how they look and their course of action that follows.

I wish her luck and I hope she doesn't grow another arm.

:lol:

 

[Guest]

To my knowledge, we have no data on its use in woman.

Given there is no proven efficacy of finasteride on female hair loss (is there?), why would you want to take it. Do you enjoy being a guinea pig?

Good luck, hope you don't grow three heads or arms!

I wish her luck and I hope she doesn't grow another arm.

Hey BruceLee, actually there have been many studies showing finasteride's effect on women. And some have shown it that it has been effective on both hirsuitism and female hair loss.

I don't think Humpty would necessarily be considered a "guinea pig" as many women before her have tried it both with failures and successes. Certainly though she will be one of the first to try it on this forum.

Here is just one of MANY studies, http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... t=Abstract

And you know very well that she will not grow another arm, no need to keep on stressing that, even though you are obviously joking, it still feels kind of tinted with a little derisiveness.

Also, if its not that big of a deal, then don't argue so much about it! :wink:

:lol:

Laura

 

[athleticmom]

No to throw anything else into this pit o fire, but I had my annual gyn check-up today. I asked my Doctor (who is also dealing with Androgenetic Alopecia, interestingly) about propecia and spironolactone. She did tell me that women's hormones are so complex that a "simple" (her word) solution such as propecia just does not do well with women (therefore the lack of success). We talked about spironolactone for me and agreed that the side effects were not worth it in my case (the potassium thing) since I am a triathlete and train a lot (and therefore have issues with potassium depletion already). She just told me to continue with my current routine and reported that a lot of study is underway to treat women's hairloss (like I can wait!!!).

Bruce, let's face it...it is harder to deal with culturally for women! Hair loss is acceptable for men, really. I happen to know many gorgeous athletic stud-men without hair!!! Women are also more prone to depression, and I can completely understand thier desperation on this issue. Not to discount a guy's at all feelings, but..........

 

[Guest]

With regard to your statement about woman's hairloss being more upsetting, that is totally subjective and in some sense, irrlevent. We have had near suicidal men on this board and some who simply shave their head. It is what it is!

I see the level of "upset" as a bogey, the real issue is the individuals' perception of how they look and their course of action that follows.

There is subjective and then there is subjective. Most people however, recognise qualitative differences between conditions and people's responses to their respective ailments. Some people are suicidal at a slight crook in their eye. Others manage to cope with the most appalling disfigurements with tremendous grace. The former group I woud not hesitate to say deserve a kick up the arse, the latter command my abiding admiration.

Baldness is unpleasant for anyone, male or female. But baldness is a part of the normal male life experience. It is something that is recognised as common in men, and indeed occurs in 50% of men once they reach a certain age. A balding man can walk down the street and see any number of men in the same boat as himself. He can decided to shave his head if he so wishes and this is unlikely to threaten his ability to procure employment, (unless he is a Timotei model, in which case, oops!) He can turn on the television and see any number of balding men presenting the news, starring in tv and film. He can see a bald man who makes no attempt at covering his hair loss acheive success in relationships, in business and the same avenues as his hirsute peers. Come a certain age, it is unlikely that anyone will reject a man as a potential partner on the grounds that he is balding. It is, after all, expected that many, if not most men will eventually go bald. But a balding woman at any age is largely unacceptable. Discrimination in the workplace is also far less likely. In short, whilst baldness can still be an object of ridicule for men, they nevertheless acheive a level of validation in their everyday life experience which is utterly absent for women. They can cover their baldness or they accept it.

Because baldness is not recognised in women, society is able to set a higher premium on woman's hair. Balding women are not available to us on any level, not in the media, not in society, not in the workplace. You ask 99% of the population about female baldness and you'd get a blank look: they're not even aware that such a thing exists. So we can't look at any successful women the way you boys looks at Van Diesel and say "well look at her. She's bald and look what she's acheived." No such figures exist. And because people don't even know that female baldness exists, we don't have the option of walking down the street bald, going into work bald, trying to form relationships bald. A quick gander through the male section of this board quickly reveals that not balding women are not even acceptable to our balding male counterparts, ("I'd bone her if she had good tits but I'd never take her out")

So yes, there is a vast difference between men and women's experience of balding. Men can go bald, they have the choice, unpleasant as it may be. For women, there is no acknowledgement that the condition even exists. If they wish to have a career, have a relationship, be societally acceptable, they're going to have to go to some lengths to cover the hair loss. Even that will not be enough for some sectors of society, many of whom, it would appear, are posting in the men's forum. :roll:

 

[Humpty Dumpty]

Have you considered topical arginine. No downside as far as I can see and some researchers believe it is the real deal (Dr. Proctor and Pickhart.

I am going to give it a go.

Never heard of it all it all my life. Has it been FDA/BMA approved for hair loss? :wink: I shall google for it forthwith. Ooooh, hang about. There's something about it on this site:

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/newsletter/article190.htm

And what do you know?

Is topical L-arginine effective, though? Of course, it is not an FDA approved treatment and never will be due to financial considerations

And you know very well that she will not grow another arm, no need to keep on stressing that, even though you are obviously joking, it still feels kind of tinted with a little derisiveness.

Indeed, nor am I very likely to suffer from erectile dysfunction, sore nuts or impotency. On the contrary, finasteride use in women is said to demonstrate an increase in libido. Now how would that they know that if they haven't tested it? :roll:

 

[Humpty Dumpty]

No to throw anything else into this pit o fire, but I had my annual gyn check-up today. I asked my Doctor (who is also dealing with Androgenetic Alopecia, interestingly) about propecia and spironolactone. She did tell me that women's hormones are so complex that a "simple" (her word) solution such as propecia just does not do well with women (therefore the lack of success).

Athleticmom, was your endo talking specifically about women with elevated androgen levels or just female Androgenetic Alopecia sufferers per se?

 

[athleticmom]

HD, she was talking about dealing with my Androgenetic Alopecia only. All my other stuff is normal, although I managed to get an iron study out of her this time. And I was like "how do you KNOW I don't have PCOS????" I am a mess and she knows it! I have no symptoms other than the hair thinning. It's hard not having some definitive cause or reason for it other than some wierd genetic fluke or WHATEVER!!! :freaked2:

 

[Humpty Dumpty]

Well, I have now bitten the bullet - as opposed to the dust (not a word, Brucey! :lol: ) Will keep y'all posted regarding future progress, if any.