the smart and easy way to know if a Doctor can do FUE right

CCS

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Have them extract 2-3 hairs off your forearm, as close together as would be on the back of your head, and graft them 2 inches away on the same forearm (so you can find it if the Doctor does a good job). This should not take long, and pain meds should hardly be needed. To get $7000 of business, a doctor should be willing to do this, and charge you at most $100.

Do this if you care about your hair and don't want to pay $$$$ to look like a freak. Then see if the grafts look like they blend in with the other hairs when they grow out, if they grow out, and if the scars look like they are cosmetically acceptable. Forearm hair has a shorter life cycle and should grow out sooner unless the telogen period is longer. Keep them out of the sun for 3 months, though, and then gradually expose them, and then judge. We are talking about a lot of money and permenant cosmet effects, so you can wait the 3 months and pay for the travel. If they pay for one way transport on the consultation, arrange in advance for them to do this on your visit. If the doctor refuses, find another doctor. Actually, he/she should do it for free if you show him you actually have the money and just need the right doctor.

Let me tell you about scars. They can look unnatural if they don't match the skin color or are raised, and the absence of pores makes big scars have a different texture than pored skin. With dot scars, the absense of pores is not a big deal because there are pores around the scar from follicles that are still there, so while the density of pores is less, it still looks more normal. You need the forearm test to know if you will get raised or discolored scars. The point of FUE is so you can shave your head if you want and not have a fine line going around the back (or fat line if you go to the average doctor).

Dot scars are not pin specs. They have to get the follicle out of the scalp, which means they will not be as small as the hair shaft. It will be even bigger than a fully hydrated living bulb. The bulb is not the follicle. The follicle is the flesh around the bulb, and is just under 1mm accross for a typical follicular unit, after the doctor cuts wide enough to make sure not to cut off part of it. It would be nice if they could leave the surface skin intact and have a subsurface scar, but I think they take out a cylinder and leave a hole 1mm accross, which later fills in with scar tissue. The asthetics of that scar tissue depends on what the doctor does and what post op directions he/she gives you, and your genetics and sun exposure. But the surface area is still big. You won't know until you get your forearm done. Strangely most docs don't have close up pics of chest hair transplants. I saw one done by Dr Cole, but it was from 10 feet away, and it was right there in the office where Dr Cole could have zoomed in had he wanted to. Most FUE sites just have pics of the back of the head right after surgury and months later when the hair is an inch long.

Finally, every time a doctor extracts a follicle, there is a chance of cutting into a nearby follicle. Don't go to a doctor that does not explain in detail and with pictures his/her technique for doing this. Then compare the technique to those of other doctors and decide which one you think sounds best.

Fortunately, most doctors who do micro grafts can do a decent job at grafting hair in the recipient area. It is just the donor area that many mess up. Some may mess up when they graft in between hairs, but as long as they say that they never do more than 30 per square cm on fresh scalp, there is a good chance they will know what they are doing if they also pass your donor technique investigation.

Finally, be sure to ask the doctor what area in the back he/she plans to take follicles from. Ask the doctor how many follicles you have per square cm. The doctor should be able to tell you a number. Then decide how many grafts you will get, adding up the total square cm in the recipient area. Multiply that area by 30. That is the maximum you can transplant to the area in 6 months. Why 6 months? Because that is how long they take to grow out, and if you do it sooner, and the doctor did a good enogh job that you can't tell the new from the old, there is a chance that the doctor might put a new graft on top of an old graft and kill the old graft. Just to avoid shock, either 6 weeks or 3 months (i forget which) is OK, but not all the hairs will grow out for 6 months.
Back to what I was saying. When you know how many follicular units you are moving, ask the doctor where he will take them from. See it in the mirror. Then ask him what surface area that is. It better be at least the area of the recipent area. Think about it. The average person has 100 follicular units per cm2 back there. Take away 30, and that leaves 70% the density. You actually can go down to 50, but save that for big procedures. It looks better to have a big area of 70 FU per cm2 than a small area of 50 or less.
Second, ask leading questions to find out if he/she takes out the same density everywhere, or if he blends the edges, so that only 10 per cm2 are removed on the border of the donor area, then 25, then 40, and back down to 25 and 10 so there is not a sudden change in density, like I've seen in some pictures on doctor's sites. If you really feel like it, you can tell him/her to blend it for you, but the doctor really should already know this and tell you without you suggesting it.

Finally, there are those pesky hairs on the back of the neck that trail from the head hair on either side of the neck. Why not get those transplanted? I'm not saying you should, if you think the scaring would look bad and you just want scars hidden under hair. But it would be interesting to ask the doctor if he/she always takes those first, since the doctor (or at least dr cole) is boasting about unnoticable scarring.

All sounds like common sense, right?

If you are thinking about the strip procedure instead, Dr Hamilton of Bosley medical left a 1/4 inch wide scar on the back of my head, which is typical of most DRs. But Dr. Keene in Tucson typically does a scar less than 1mm wide, which can't be seen even when your hair is 1/4 inch long. I had two procedures and am very pleased, and she took from the same spot both times, removing the bosley scar the first time and her tiny scar the second time. I can't vouch for other Dr's because I've never been to others.

Finally, before you consider hair transplants, read my recent posts about topical and oral regrowth treatments to learn about method cocktails that are much stronger than propecia alone. You might not need a transplant. Also be aware that follicles go into telogen after being transplanted and are shocked and take a full year to mature to full thickness and an average of 5 months to come out the surface. 30 grafts per cm2 looks better than no hair, and will make you take that hat off, but it still is very thin. 50 per cm2 looks much fuller, but it does not give luscious locks of hair like your natureal 100 per cm2. So you need a full one and a half years to get a finished hair graft project, which is close to the time a drug treatment takes to reach its maxim benifit. Propecia on average regrew 90 terminal hairs in a circle 1 inch accross. Be aware of this limitation, and the fact that NW5's and 6's might have too much area to cover with grafts, and will be given high hair lines, and the grafts you do get will be placed in your most recently bald areas on top, which had the best chance of regrowth with topicals but a much smaller chance after all the grafts went in and shocked or stabbed follicles. The hairline, which is the toughest place to regrow, won't have any grafts because they are all up in the Norwood 2or 3 area, for a "mature, realistic" hairline. Before you get grafts, first look at the cocktale of topicals and finasteride that you should try for a year for about $70 total from various souces including walmart.
 

CCS

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Myth of developing dependence on propecia and rogaine

Some people say that propecia stops working after a while. This is a myth. The truth is genetics causes follicles to get more sensitive, and while the drug keeps its power, the small hair loss that occurs after 2 years is just the weakest ones getting weak enough that even the reduced DHT levels can hurt them. This happens to the average propecia user, which is why I advocate people to use minoxidil and the other stuff on my list. But even if it were true, this would not mean you should get grafts now instead, since you have the same problem even with the grafts, since you will likely loose more hair. I've heard similar myths about minoxidil and its different concentrations, and they are wrong for the same reason. Large sheds follow getting off these drugs after a while because while the small yearly loss was the small fraction that are close to susceptible to the lowered DHT levels becoming susceptible, every follicle is simultaneously becoming more sensitive according to your genetics, but safe at the low levels. If you are in the average group, your genetics say you should have been in the placebo group, and that is where your hair will fall to when you get off the drug. However, most of the newly lost hair does not die in one year, and you can catch up to the propecia group again. The people who started a year late never catch up because their weakest hairs went a year too longer without propecia and died in that year. When put on propecia after a year, we see in 4 years how many died permenantly in that first year by the difference in hair count between the two propecia groups. It is like two people holding their breath. One was above the surface the whole time and breathing, then duncked for a minute. The other who was below the surface is kept under anther minute and dies. Each of your hairs is like such a person, and the difference their sensitivety and the DHT level multiplied by the time determines how long they have to live. Sensitivity is analogus to how long you can hold your breath and how long you need to catch it, and DHT level is analogues to the faction of the time you are held under. Similar concepts apply to other hair loss treatments.
 

CCS

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my soon to be regimen, and propecia 5 year graph

My soon to be regimen
http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hair transplant=#227696


Propecia 5 year trial with cross over
http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/248/430/2006 ... _chart.gif

Notice that
1. the group that waited a year to get on propecia took 3 years to reach a maximum, whereas the earlier group maxed in only 1 year. So you may keep gaining for 3 years.
2. The group that got off propecia did not fall below the placebo group.
3. The group that started early and got off and back on had more hair at the end of 5 years than the group that started a year late.
4. The placebo group lost half their hair density in 5 years. Most people have 650 hairs per sq cm on the sides, at least when they are young.

Did you know that most people loose hair on the sides of their head as well, even if they don't go "bald"? It is normal as you get older, though it is very slow. It occurs for the same reason the propecia group is loosing hair after the second year, which i detailed in the other posts. You can slow that down too.
 

global

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Getting a few hairs transplanted on the arm is not going to give you any idea of the result a doctor will be able to achieve on your head.

Scalp skin and arm skin characteristics will be different, so scarring on one can't be used to predict results on the other.

Hair shaft diameters will be different, and a single arm hair may not reflect that on your head you may have follicular units with three follicles, a small punch that would leave a smaller scar with just one hair may not be able to be used on 3 hair units.

Finally, a doctor doing a couple of hairs is not the same as a team of people doing a procedure of hundreds or thousands of grafts. You want someone who has proven they can continue to get good results after hours of surgery when they are on the thousandth graft, not someone who just concentrates for a few minutes on one or two.
 

DaveOne

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Very true global. And see as many of the docs patients in person that you can...nothing like seeing the work up close, in the flesh.
 

LookingGood!

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I am totally convinced CCS is nuts!
 

LookingGood!

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It's called "no life." He's a wannabee Fittest from HLH. Then again that doesnt say much for credibility either. Eh it makes for good forum fun.
 

CCS

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arm hair transpant do not prove that the surgeon is compentant. agreed. but if the doctor messes those up, you know the doctor can't do your head right. so to keep from getting totally screwed, or at least to have some idea what you are getting into, do the arm test.

believe what you want. its not my problem. everyone reading this can't say I did not tell them.

and you are right about me having no life. I'm on here arguing with people about stuff that I don't need to worry about. i should just stop and only test the pills guys sent me and maybe check in when i have questions i need answered for myself. I'll post my results, but I think everyone is right that my 10+ hours per day is dumb and I need to drop down to 30 minutes per week.
 

LookingGood!

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Why are stating that if he messes up? You are predicting he is going to mess up. Alittle news to you, there are many competent FUE Doctor today that dont mess up and most of the time if they do there is extenuating circumstances that only the patient and MD will have access to and only forum memebers could speculate....like most do. Again, check yourself.
 

CCS

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I'm not even saying they will mess up. i'm just saying that many people on here think FUE has the appearance of no scars at all, and i'm telling people that before they let someone do 2000 extractions, they should at least see what it looks like on their arm, which is a much easier task for the doctor. if they are not happy with the donor site on their arm, then they should reconsider getting FUE, or see what another doctor can do.

many people on here are planning to get body hair transplanted. that makes this very applicable. i personally would be very hesitant to risk having 2000 1mm dots all over my body, at least until I saw what 3 of them would look like.
 
G

Guest

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I agree, there are a number of FUE docs doing good work these days. It was pretty much in its infancy in North America as short as three years ago!
 
G

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Test procedures have their place, including those who have potential for keyloiding, etc.
 

LookingGood!

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gillenator said:
I agree, there are a number of FUE docs doing good work these days. It was pretty much in its infancy in North America as short as three years ago!

Actually Cole has been doing it since 93.
 

LookingGood!

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collegechemistrystudent said:
I'm not even saying they will mess up. i'm just saying that many people on here think FUE has the appearance of no scars at all, and i'm telling people that before they let someone do 2000 extractions, they should at least see what it looks like on their arm, which is a much easier task for the doctor. if they are not happy with the donor site on their arm, then they should reconsider getting FUE, or see what another doctor can do.

many people on here are planning to get body hair transplanted. that makes this very applicable. i personally would be very hesitant to risk having 2000 1mm dots all over my body, at least until I saw what 3 of them would look like.

Ok fine so You'll take the big smiley face over the little red dots????

Come on now CowBoy!
 

CCS

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my smiley face is less than a mm thick. it is not visible at all even at a #2. I'll post a picture as soon as my recent procedure fully heals. It has been only 6 weeks.
 

CCS

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i realize mine catches they eye more with a perfectly shaved head, since it is in a line and therefore the pattern is recognised right away. but the total surface area of mine is far less, and it looks like a thin scar, instead of several dots which might make someone wonder. I think it is up to debate which looks better.

but I must agree, most doctors leave a 1/4 inch or wider scar back there, so FUE does sound better than that.
 
G

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LookingGood! said:
gillenator said:
I agree, there are a number of FUE docs doing good work these days. It was pretty much in its infancy in North America as short as three years ago!

Actually Cole has been doing it since 93.


LG,

Dr. Cole started doing FIT (another version of FUE) in late 2002 and did not really take off with it until early 2003. He did total strip before that. I know firsthand because I used to be employed by him as Director of Patient Services at that time. Dr. Paul Rose was there from the beginning and played an integral role in the development of FIT techniques and methods with him including the incorpration of dermal depth analysis. That information is no longer noted at Dr. Cole's website. He now calls this technology the "Cole Technique".

Dr. Rose, Dr. ********, myself, the clinic manager, and other surgical staff all left Dr. Cole at approximately the same time in late 2003 to early 2004. It was then that I decided to formally become an independent patient advocate.
 

LookingGood!

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you're not the "Fittest" are you?

Ok let me clarify, he has done FUE since 93 or so and since moved away from strip but still offers it.
 

LookingGood!

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Funny thing is Dr Rose's name is still up there on the sign.

Why did you leave, some criticism please?
 
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