Terminal hair growth on non-prior haired areas / Diclofenac 3% | HairLossTalk Forums
Dismiss Notice
Forum Update: Aug 19. Feedback for the Admin? Upgrade coming: Click Here.

Terminal hair growth on non-prior haired areas / Diclofenac 3%

Discussion in 'New Research, Studies, and Technologies' started by lacaz, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. lacaz

    lacaz Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    1465057546-journalssc-com.png

    This case in this late 2015 study quite impressed me / "Topical Diclofenac 3% Gel for Actinic Keratosis May Induce Terminal Hair in Male Androgenetic Alopecia: A Report of Three Cases"
    http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...cle_id=33470 &cd=3&hair loss=fr&ct=clnk&gl=fr


    -Diclofenac 3% was used for treating his actinic keratosis, so the topical application was on his AKs and not all over the balding scalp. ( and just once a day application)

    -the guy is in his seventies, balding for more than 15 years and showed (after 6months) terminal hair growth (pic B and C) on non-prior haired areas of the scalp

    -the photo D is a 4 years follow up "Patient 1 was followed-up for four years because of his AK, and showed continuous hair growth over the span of this period"

    I'm seriously wondering what a 'twice a day application, during +12 months, and all over the scalp' could do?

    This gel sounds nice and how it grow hair is not really surprising:

    'Diclofenac 3% gel is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug that inhibits COX-1 and COX-2 enzymes, resulting in decreased production of PGs and MMPs.'

    'COX-2 has a key function in the prostaglandins pathway, converting AA to PGH2, from which PGD2, PGE2, PGF2α, prostacyclin and thromboxane A2 are produced by specific synthase enzymes'

    'Authors hypothesize that the inhibition of the COX-2 by diclofenac, might
    act over the inflammatory mechanism and the PGs misbalance (↑PGD2, ↓PGE2, ↓PGF2α) observed in the Androgenetic Alopecia.'

    ___________


    Recently topical 3% diclofenac is commonly used to treat actinic keratosis (AK) with good results (1). It may also have a potential effect on hair growth (2). Authors present three cases of hair growth on the scalp after topical diclofenac treatment. To the authors’ best knowledge, these are the first reported cases in the literature.
    2.Case presentation

    Three male patients were visited in the dermatology department because of scalp AK, and received treatment with topical 3% diclofenac gel-based drug compound, once nightly for four to six months. One gram of the gel was used on a 10 × 10 cm area. All patients were in their seventies (73, 77 and 79 years old) and had also concomitant androgenetic alopecia for more than 15 years. During the follow-up visits after four and six months of starting the treatment, all patients and their families described terminal hair growth on non-prior haired areas of the scalp. This finding was also observed by the authors (Figures 1 and 2). There were neither relevant previous interventions nor concomitant medications that could interfere in the outcome. Patient 1 was followed-up for four years because of his AK, and showed continuous hair growth over the span of this period (Figure 1). Treatment was well tolerated in all cases and no adverse events were observed.

    some terminal hair for the 3 seventies guys! topical application that targeted their AK areas not all their hair loss area, and just once a day for 6 months. After 4 years those terminal hair on the subject 1 continue to grow

    I would love to know what kind of results we could see with 3% diclofenac once or twice a day, for more than 12 months, all over the balding areas and miniaturized hair ( even on the donor area), and on younger cases than the 3 seventies ( 2 recent studies showed how cells power decreased with age)
     
    d3nt3dsh0v3l likes this.
  2. RatherGoBlindThanSeeItGo

    RatherGoBlindThanSeeItGo Established Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2016
    Messages:
    94
    Likes Received:
    32
    Dislikes Received:
    3
    That's crazy. Reminds of that article about a 70-something year old man regaining hair on spironolactone, but this looks like more hair and no side effects. Isn't diclofenac available over the counter?
     
  3. thomps1523

    thomps1523 Established Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    277
    Dislikes Received:
    27
    Can anyone tell me why it seems to be a punchline here that due to fibrosis there is no growing hair on slick bald areas, yet time and time again we see it happening in studies like this, and wounding? It's obviously possible to grow terminals on slick bald areas, so why do companies like Follica say their treatment will be used in areas mixed with hair, when we've seen wounding bring back terminal hair in slick bald areas for users in this forum using similar treatments?
     
  4. Giiizmo

    Giiizmo Established Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2014
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    148
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    And yet PGs are essential to hair growth which is why we don't slather our balding scalps in aspirin topicals

    Maybe the diclofenac quelled the inflammation resulting from the actinic keratosis that was preventing some (diffuse) hair to grow on the balding scalp? It's not like the photos show massive hair regrowth.
     
  5. lacaz

    lacaz Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I thinked of that too, but they are scientists who know well about those actinic keratosis, they would have at least talked about that possibility in this paper (paper wrote in the goal of understand /explain why there is hair growth

    and when you look the mechanism of action of the drug, it is definitly good for the hair, but the question is in which proportion

    for me it's good regrowth, keep in mind that he's +70 (less cells power), that he used it once a day, for 6 months, and not the entire scalp (especially near the limitation with the donor area where there are more miniaturazing hair)

    What kind of regrowth would give, this topical on a younger man (with more fresh powerful cells), twice a day on the entire scalp, during 9, 12, 24 months? We know how long is the hair processus. I'm quite convince it could give cosmetically results

    @Rathergo' I don't know about that, I hope, will look to it as Im interested to test
     
  6. Xaser94

    Xaser94 Established Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    628
    Dislikes Received:
    6
    Hey, can you or anyone please link me to where Follica stated that their treatment can only be used in areas mixed with hair? Thank you.
     
  7. thomps1523

    thomps1523 Established Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    277
    Dislikes Received:
    27
    I can't, and maybe I'm part of the issue by echoing comments that aren't necessarily even true, but I've read several people talk about how the treatment can only be used in areas where there is hair already... I'd love someone to provide a link of Follica explaining this as well.
     
  8. Xaser94

    Xaser94 Established Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    628
    Dislikes Received:
    6
    Im almost positive they never said this bro. All their actual quotes lead to the conclusion that it should not matter. They have stated they have grown completely new hair on human scalps. So why would it need to be on mixed hair scalp. The end results is a new hair follicle, so what does it matter what is next to it.
     
  9. thomps1523

    thomps1523 Established Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2007
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    277
    Dislikes Received:
    27
    http://www.hairlosstalk.com/interact/showthread.php/98226-Lots-of-New-Info-on-Follica/page17

    Users were talking about it on that page of the Follica thread.
     
  10. Xaser94

    Xaser94 Established Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    628
    Dislikes Received:
    6
    Nothing is set in stone my friend, so I guess we cant be sure until they release the treatment but i feel like taking pieces from a huge document such as a patent like that sometimes can leas to problems.

    [00638] Diagnosis and main criteria for inclusion are Caucasian males 20-65 years of age, providing written informed consent, who have androgenetic alopecia with the presence of a vertex transition zone defined as an area possessing both terminal and miniaturized hairs, Hamilton-Norwood type 3V, 4, 5, 5A, or 5V, with a vertex area large enough to accommodate both treatment sites, and Fitzpatrick skin type 1-4. "

    This does seem to imply u need a mix of hair and miniaturized hair but that doesn't necessarily mean that this is the only case it would work in. In the same patent they also say

    [FONT=Arial, sans-serif][0058] Accordingly, and without being bound by theory, the invention is based in part on the discovery that, while hair growth can be promoted by true hair follicle neogenesis, other follicular structures that need not arise from de novo formation of neofollicles can be stimulated, activated and reorganized in order to promote hair growth. [/FONT]

    [FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So maybe they were just seeing if they get both denovo hairs and strengthen miniaturized hairs as well, like killing 2 birds with one stone. But I guess we'll just have to wait and see.[/FONT]
     
  11. Pray The Bald Away

    Pray The Bald Away Experienced Member My Regimen

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2016
    Messages:
    740
    Likes Received:
    213
    Dislikes Received:
    4
    My Regimen:
    My Regimen
    My Regimen
    It's detailed in Cotsarelis's patents for his wounding method. Noisette posted the links in the follica topic.
     
  12. lacaz

    lacaz Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    I never see that statement from follica aswell, maybe it will be more easy to have better results in those areas, but I never see that kind of statement in the other wound-induced hair neogenesis studies I looked


    About the Diclofenac, apparently twice daily even at 3% is possible

    USES: This medication is used to treat a certain skin condition (actinic keratoses). Diclofenac is known as a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID).

    HOW TO USE:
    Use this medication on the skin only. Gently apply enough medication to cover the affected skin well, usually 2 times daily or as directed by your doctor. This medication is usually applied for 60 to 90 days. Wash your hands after using, unless you are using this medication to treat the hands.The dosage is based on your medical condition and response to treatment.



    it seems that it's more easy to find diclofenac gel 1% (for ostheoarthritis) as the 3% require prescription

    but I don't know anything about online pharmacies, is anyone could confirm me that these one are legit for exemple ?
    Drugs for Health
    Medicines Store
    Generic Drugs Shop
    http://pharma-doctor.com/diclofenac.html


    Here they sell the 3%, shipping from the UK, but with prescription ( can someone explain me how the prescription verification process work with an online pharma please?
    https://www.pharmacyrxworld.com/buy-Solaraze-Gel.html
     
  13. pegasus2

    pegasus2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Messages:
    1,682
    Likes Received:
    743
    Dislikes Received:
    119
    If standard treatments weren't working for me I would be willing to give this a shot. I don't want mess with inhibiting all PGs until such time that I'm out of options.
     
  14. spring15

    spring15 Senior Member My Regimen

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2016
    Messages:
    1,163
    Likes Received:
    1,165
    Dislikes Received:
    14
    My Regimen:
    My Regimen
    My Regimen
    Impressive results for someone nearly completely bald, is anyone going to try this?

    EDIT: Just read possible side effects, this stuff sounds dodgy
     
  15. champpy

    champpy Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2015
    Messages:
    906
    Likes Received:
    1,108
    Dislikes Received:
    32
    I ordered some sulfasalazine via online pharma. they gave option of how I wanted to verify prescription, but it seems like they never really wanted it to begin with. I was able to pay and it looks like it shipped without prescription. I think they just do that to make it look like they are going thru the proper channels but they really don't seem to care. We will see if I get my order in the next week or so

    Not saying all onlines will work without prescription, but some do
     
  16. FCKW36

    FCKW36 Experienced Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Messages:
    862
    Likes Received:
    564
    Dislikes Received:
    113
    Dozen of people in the german forum tested it for month 2 years ago. It wasn't the big deal.
     
  17. lacaz

    lacaz Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Likes Received:
    1
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    OK thank you Champpy for the explication i will try to buy the 3%

    As for the side effects, it's quite like when you look aspirin possible side effects, it's scary. But they say at 3% for the vast majority there's no side effects report, and if there is, just stop the application, so i think i'll take the risk

    OK thanks fckw36 but I can't base my opinion only on that, too much parameters ( how many months, dosage, other medications, other hairloss factors, regularity, which norwoods, how evaluate the results in slowing their hair loss, their regimen, etc, etc )

    And look what they say

    Some authors call the implication of various activators of inflammation in the etiology of Androgenetic Alopecia as micro-inflammation (3). Perifollicular micro-inflammation may account for some cases of male pattern Androgenetic Alopecia, which do not respond to topical minoxidil (3).In my case minoxidil did nothing so i'm interested

    It's clear its not a cure, but if it can save some miniaturized hair like in the 3 grandpa, It's already good. That means it also help to keep the healthy ones entering miniaturizing process. Then the results will depend in which proportion perifollicular microinflammation is involved in your Androgenetic Alopecia causes process
     
  18. Xaser94

    Xaser94 Established Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Messages:
    345
    Likes Received:
    628
    Dislikes Received:
    6
    I dont think you read my last post in this thread but Ill try to explain my point again. This is what made people come to that conclusion I believe

    [00638] Diagnosis and main criteria for inclusion are Caucasian males 20-65 years of age, providing written informed consent, who have androgenetic alopecia with the presence of a vertex transition zone defined as an area possessing both terminal and miniaturized hairs, Hamilton-Norwood type 3V, 4, 5, 5A, or 5V, with a vertex area large enough to accommodate both treatment sites, and Fitzpatrick skin type 1-4. "

    But they no where did they explicitly say it wouldnt work on slick bald areas. If what they claim about creating denovo hair is true,it doesnt matter if there is miniaturized hairs near by or in a transition zone. I think they just decided to test those patients to get the best possible results. They think they're procedure also reverts miniaturized hair to terminal so with the addition of wounding and minoxidil maybe youll get some new hair in the front as well as thickening the miniaturized area right behind it for a better overall result. But that doesnt necessarily mean you need to have hair there for it to work, just for maybe the best possible result.

    For instance in the new Allergan trial for Setipiprant they say

    Inclusion Criteria:

    • Participant has androgenetic alopecia (Androgenetic Alopecia)
    • Participant agrees to maintain current hair care regimen, refraining from hair weaving, hair colorants or dyes and non-study hair growth products during the study.
    So just cause the only participants they take are the ones who refrain from hair weaving during the study doesnt mean it wont work if you do when the actual drug gets released. Its just in the study what they think will get the best possible results.

     
  19. opti

    opti Established Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    27
    Dislikes Received:
    1
    if your looking at minoxidil you probably want to look at this study too :

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3686323/
    mitomodal treatment microemulsion was minoxidil+tea tree oil+dicloflenac
     
    k9gatton likes this.
  20. KJ1982

    KJ1982 New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2013
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    13
    Dislikes Received:
    0
    Surely it's not going to be as simple as applying Voltarol/Voltaren gel to your scalp twice a day...? :confused:
     

Share This Page