Synchronized cycles with finasteride

sunnylandslim

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Reading the "Long-term (5-year) multinational experience with finasteride 1 mg in the treatment of men with androgenetic alopecia" I read this in the "Discussion" part:

http://www.jle.com/en/revues/medecine/ejd/e-docs/00/01/88/FE/article.md

"Based on the predefined endpoints utilizing photographic methods (hair counts and global photographic assessment), peak efficacy was observed at one to two years of treatment with finasteride.

This observation of an apparent peaking effect is likely due, in part, to the previously-reported beneficial effects of finasteride on the hair growth cycle based on a phototrichogram study [26]. In that study, initiation of finasteride treatment was shown to increase the number of anagen-phase hairs and to increase the anagen to telogen ratio, consistent with normalization of the growth cycles of previously miniaturized hairs due to the release of hair follicles from the inhibitory effects of DHT [26]. Consistent with these results, finasteride treatment was also shown to increase the growth rate and/or thickness of hairs, based on analysis of serial hair weight measurements [27].

Because these beneficial changes in the hair growth cycle are dependent on when therapy with finasteride is initiated and occur rapidly, the affected hairs are driven to cycle in a synchronous manner.

If these hairs have somewhat similar anagen phase durations, they would enter telogen phase as the anagen (and catagen) phase ended, followed by subsequent shedding, in a partially synchronized fashion.

This would be expected to produce a gradual decline from peak hair count after a period of time equal to the average anagen phase duration. Eventually, as subsequent growth cycles recurred, these hairs would be expected to become increasingly independent, thereby losing their synchronous character as their growth cycles further normalized over time, leading to a sustained increase in hair count at a plateau above baseline, as suggested by the 5-year data presented here"


At start taking finasteride many hairs enter anagen (growth) and after a time (2,3,4 years, according to the length of your anagen phase), these hairs would enter then telogen phase and would fall posteriorly in a partially synchronized fashion .Later, with subsequent hair cycles the thing would go back to normal.

So at some point you will suffer a big shed period for that then these hairs out of sync resulting in more natural cycles.

This leads me to wonder if all these post of loss of effectiveness tend to see the 2,3,4 years are due to the timing of the fall and what we should do in those cases where good results would come to expect that everything is stable.

Does anyone has this happened?
 

sunnylandslim

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In this post HoldingOn talk about that:

http://www.hairestorationetwork.com/eve/144160-how-long-finasteride-effective-2.html

"I recently asked my dermatolgist about the effectiveness of Propecia wearing off over time.

He told me that this is a misconception based on a misinterpretation of the Merck study.
He explained that the highest regrowth occurred after 2 years...followed by a slight tapering off and stabilization after that.

He attributed this to the fact that the hair growth cycle will be "in sync" immediately following the administration of Propecia. After 2 years, the hair cycle starts to return to normal...asynchronous (spelling?) growth...thus giving the appearance that it is not working as well.

He told me to relax and to stay on course. According to him, it is extremely rare for Propecia to just stop working for someone.
He also told me to imagine what I would look like if I had never started taking Propecia...I agreed and shut up "
 

sunnylandslim

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Changes in hair weight in men with androgenetic
alopecia after treatment with ?nasteride
(1 mg daily): Three- and 4-year results

Font : http://www.folikul.com/Finasteride%204.pdf

viewtopic.php


Viewing this image shows that between week 72 and week 96, had a 5% decrease in the number of hairs, which represents a reduction of more than 1 / 3 of the gains. Subsequently recovered a bit and then back down and apparently stable.

Values approx:

Week 72: 13.5%
Week 96: 9%
Week 120: 12%
Week 144:8,6%
Week 192:7,2%

From this it should be noted that the benefits we get in the first 2 years are usually transient and then the number stabilizes hair but being always higher than what was at first. So always be nice to have pictures of how we were at first to maintain perspective. I'm clearly better than 2 ½ years ago but worse than 1 year ago.

In contrast, in the graph of the weight of the hair, the graph moves around 20% improvement, which supports my theory that I do not see my hair now being miniaturized.


After these 5 years the thing would stabilize or perhaps descend gently. This can be deduced from the study that has now gone 10 years, which I couldn´t see the whole thing, but online you can view the abstract or pay 40 dollars and make him (if someone does tell us).
The study says that finasteride does not lose effectiveness and in opinion of the investigator's progress during the first year may help predict the effectiveness of treatment although there were patients who improved after 1 year and maintained a positive trend. 21% of cases after 5 years the improvements brought better results.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1529-8019.2011.01441.x/abstract

http://gabelcenter.com/blog/2011/10/28/ ... in-oregon/

In this last page say that this study found that 86% of patients improved or stabilized their alopecia after 10 years.
 

sunnylandslim

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In this post, in 2005, Socks talk about the same thing.

http://www.hairlosshelp.com/forums/...5&highlight_key=y&keyword1=synchronized cycle

"If I'm reading this correctly this is basically saying that the reason why there is a seemingly peaking of finasteride results in the first year or two is due to finasteride's effect on the growth cycles.

When you start finasteride the number of anagen hairs to telogen hairs increase (thus the increase in hair counts). Over time, this synchronization "breaks" and hair become increasingly independent (thus lower hair counts at any given time).

This would also explain why some men experience a sudden loss of gains on finasteride... If their hair is synchronized from the initiation of finasteride a year or two (or more) ago, when their hair reaches the telogen phase there would be massive shedding. This apparent loss would remain until the hair started growing again (3 months) and would take several more months for the hair to grow and provide a cosmetic improvement... Perhaps some of these guys who drop finasteride when they think results are fading are not giving enough time for the synchronized telogen phase to end...
"

What are your thoughts?
 
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Can I just say after hours of reading, this post has just calmed my nerves somewhat. Great news. Maintain some perspective!
 

Inigo1202

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I just read this post now, I'm bumping it.

What does anyone else think?
 

ihatebackstabbers

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Changes in hair weight in men with androgenetic
alopecia after treatment with ?nasteride
(1 mg daily): Three- and 4-year results

Font : http://www.folikul.com/Finasteride 4.pdf

viewtopic.php


Viewing this image shows that between week 72 and week 96, had a 5% decrease in the number of hairs, which represents a reduction of more than 1 / 3 of the gains. Subsequently recovered a bit and then back down and apparently stable.

Values approx:

Week 72: 13.5%
Week 96: 9%
Week 120: 12%
Week 144:8,6%
Week 192:7,2%

From this it should be noted that the benefits we get in the first 2 years are usually transient and then the number stabilizes hair but being always higher than what was at first. So always be nice to have pictures of how we were at first to maintain perspective. I'm clearly better than 2 ½ years ago but worse than 1 year ago.

In contrast, in the graph of the weight of the hair, the graph moves around 20% improvement, which supports my theory that I do not see my hair now being miniaturized.


After these 5 years the thing would stabilize or perhaps descend gently. This can be deduced from the study that has now gone 10 years, which I couldn´t see the whole thing, but online you can view the abstract or pay 40 dollars and make him (if someone does tell us).
The study says that finasteride does not lose effectiveness and in opinion of the investigator's progress during the first year may help predict the effectiveness of treatment although there were patients who improved after 1 year and maintained a positive trend. 21% of cases after 5 years the improvements brought better results.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1529-8019.2011.01441.x/abstract

http://gabelcenter.com/blog/2011/10/28/ ... in-oregon/

In this last page say that this study found that 86% of patients improved or stabilized their alopecia after 10 years.
Here's the full study for one of the articles that you mentioned...

Finasteride, 1 mg daily administration on male androgenetic alopecia in different age groups: 10-year follow-up

.::edit::. I just realized that this is a 7 year old post.
 
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ihatebackstabbers

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I just read this post now, I'm bumping it.

What does anyone else think?
I'm not sure if you are asking about synchronized shedding but it can definitely happen. The hairs can then grow back in sync but it will be less synchronized with ever subsequent growth cycle. I've also seen this with people who use minoxidil too.
 

Slid

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This usually happens with minoxidil.I have them and my derm told me that she had 2-3 guys coming in with the same issue.
 
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