Admin said:
Old Baldy said:
The point I'm trying to make is that maybe saw palmetto as a topical is beneficial.
By linking to a patent thats over 8 yrs old and was never turned in to a product? I guess I don't understand the facts you're using to make your point.
Alot of companies apparently agree with this because they include saw palmetto/beta sitosterol extracts in their topical treatments.
Every single snake oil on earth has SP in it. Only one legit potential treatment I know of contains it. Revivogen/Crinagen. Even they told me they included it only for marketing purposes. Just because the public is so confused about the topic that it made more sense to include it than to leave it out. Even they acknowledge its ineffectiveness.
[quote:d0627]Btw, I've read ALOT of patents and no one has cured hair loss yet.
LOL ... I know. Ergo --- they dont work. Again are you arguing in favor or against SP with these statements?
I've said this before and Ill say it again. I sat in front of Angela Christiano at Columbia University and was allowed to see into her private stash of Saw Palmetto trial results. The only significant SP trials I believe that have ever been attempted for hair loss. She flat out told me "It did absolutely nothing. No effect. Doesn't work." And she has every reason to say it does work. Her husband sells a Saw Palmetto treatment and has devoted his life to proving it works for hair loss.
That was enough for me to close the books on SP in my mind, until further data comes out backing it as a hair loss treatment.
And by the way, I am sure SP has many amazing properties to its effect on the body. Not surprisingly, those things have been proven in clinical trials. Go figure. But treating hair loss is not one of them. 100 studies for saw palmetto's benefit on the prostate. Entire magazines published surrounding the topic. Not a single study for hair loss. So use it if you want. But don't attempt to make any claims that it works or is even beneficial for hair loss.
I realize its harmless to "Try stuff". Its harmless to pee on your bald neighbors head, too. But whats the point of saying "it might help!" if you have no reason to believe that? We have no reason to believe that about SP, so we don't say it. We can debate based on conjecture and assumption or we can debate based on facts and failed trials. If we debate based on facts, then SP cannot be considered useful for hair loss.
Admin[/quote:d0627]
Well I sure would like to see those studies! Where are they!? I view Dr. Chriastiano much the same as Dr. Sawaya. "Here today, gone tomorrow". Why such reliance on Dr. Chistiano? I know the facts about her but she isn't a Thomas Edison if you get my drift! Neither is Dr. Sawaya. "Flashes in the pan" IMHO.
Post the studies you so strongly rely upon. I posted a textbook excerpt and a patent, with examples, that show saw palmetto extract to be beneficial.
Try to be less emotional and more calm and logical. Your writing style on this subject clearly shows that you have a subjective objection to saw palmetto/beta sitosterol treatments.
Post studies and stop talking with so much emotion PLEASE!!!!!
I've read the studies showing serum dht levels aren't affected. I've read MANY abstracts and studies relative to SP and beta sisterol. I've posted those that CLEARLY state SP and beta sitosterol can be beneficial to scalp health. One of my posts appears to be from a TEXTBOOK!
Please post the sudies of the doctor you so heavily rely upon. Please tell us who those manufacturerse were who stated "we only put that stuff in our products for marketing purposes only". Please post what they base those marketing opinions on. Please provide a TEXTBOOK mention of SP and beta sitosterol not having a beneficial effect on inflammation and the immune system.
I mean you want us to believe that manufacturers have concluded that everyone has been duped into thinking SP and beta sitosterol are for regrowing hair. That's absolutely ridiculous!! Like you said, there aren't many studies. So why in the world would they put it in for marketing purposes only? You take 100 people and ask them the main purpose for SP and beta sitosterol and do you really think enough people would say "for hair loss" so it would make manufacturers automatically include it in their products to "just please us".
I'll bet most people would say those ingredients benefit the prostate. That's the COMMOM knowledge relative to SP and beta sitosterol.
I've posted the reason why I believe what I believe. Please calm down and post your authorities.
If you can't post those studies that show "nothing happened" then what are we supposed to really believe? If you can't post studies that show SP and beta sitosterol are NOT beneficial to scalp health then I suggest you .... well you're the Admin. I better watch what I say.
Maybe you should answer this question the way Doctor Proctor did years back:
Peter H. Proctor Dec 30 2001, 8:03 pm show options
Newsgroups: alt.baldspot
From:
pproc...@neosoft.com (Peter H. Proctor) - Find messages by this author
Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 19:00:22 UNDEFINED
Local: Sun,Dec 30 2001 7:00 pm
Subject: Re: Dr. P - advice on saw palmetto
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In article <3c2f627a.9633215@news>
grum...@grumblel.com (Grumble) writes:
>From:
grum...@grumblel.com (Grumble)
>Subject: Dr. P - advice on saw palmetto
>Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 18:42:33 GMT
>Been reading a lot of messages on saw palmetto and what it inhibits
>posted so far.
>Dr. P. in your professional opinion, is saw palmetto topical
>application on the whole beneficial or not for hair loss?
Donno. The oral form is almost certainly significantly antiandrogenic--- a
couple of patients tell me they got a little breast growth on it.
Dr P