Rogaine Foam Hair Count Study Doesn't Look too Encouraging!

Reaction score
0
Hi,

I have been reading this forum for a few weeks to figure out what products to use for my hair loss. I have seen the back and forth discussions of the advantages for Rogaine foam vs liquid, but no hard data to back up anyones opinion. I have been trying to find hair count data on the new foam but no luck until now. Seems like it has been a well kept secret for some reason, but when I saw the results it has become apparent why it has been so. It seems the foam is not very effective as compared to the liquid. Maybe I have interpreted it incorrectly, but a net gain of 20 hairs in 16 weeks seems pretty weak to me as compared to the data on the liquid. What do you guys think?


A Multicenter, Randomized, Placebo-
Controlled Double-Blind Clinical Trial of a
Novel Formulation of 5% Topical Minoxidil
Foam vs. Placebo in the Treatment of
Androgenetic Alopecia in Men

Olsen, Elise;1 Funicella, Toni;2 Roberts, Janet;3 Kempers, Steven;4
Piacquadio, Dan;5 Wanser, Rita;6 Zhang, Paul;6 Kohut, Bruce;6
1. Duke University Medical Center, Durham, Northe
CArolina, USA; 2. DermResearch, Inc., Austin, TX, USA;
3. Northwest Cutaneous Research Specialists, Portland, OR,
USA; 4. Minnesota Clinical Study Center, Fridley, MN, USA;
5. Therapeutics, Inc., Lajolla, CA, USA; 6. McNeil Consumer
Healthcare, Morris Plains, NJ, USA

Although 5% topical minoxidil solution is safe and effective,
a vehicle that does not contain propylene glycol and is more
aesthetically pleasing to the consumer, would be a distinct
advantage to consumers for use in androgenetic alopecia
(Androgenetic Alopecia).
Objective: To assess the efficacy and safety of 5% topical
minoxidil when formulated in a new foam vehicle (TMF)
for men with Androgenetic Alopecia.
Method: Two-phase study:
• Sixteen week double-blind placebo-controlled phase
to evaluate the efficacy and safety of the 5% TMF.
This phase was conducted on 352 men ages 20-49 with
patterns IIIv, IV or V Hamilton Norwood with the primary
efficacy endpoints of change between Baseline and Week
16 target area hair counts (TAHC) and Week 16 subject
assessment of change in hair loss condition from Baseline.
• Open-label extension phase to collect 52 weeks of
safety data with 5% TMF. One hundred forty-three
subjects continued on this phase of the study. Safety
was monitored by taking intercurrent history, vital signs
and scalp irritation assessment by both investigator
and subject.
Results:
• Statistically significant increase at Week 16 compared to
Baseline in TAHC with the 5% TMF group (170.8 to 190.8
hairs) compared to placebo (168.9 to 174.4) (p<0.0001).
• Statistically significant subjective assessment of hair loss
condition (p<0.0001) on 5% TMF (70.6% noted increased
hair growth, including 47.8% moderate or marked hair
growth) compared to placebo (42.4% noted increased
hair growth, including 21.5% moderate or marked hair
growth).
• No significant safety concerns were raised and the 5%
TMF was well tolerated over a one year use period.
Conclusions: The 5% topical minoxidil product, formulated
without propylene glycol and in a foam vehicle, is a safe and
effective treatment for men with Androgenetic Alopecia.
 
Reaction score
0
So, I guess I am correct in my interpretation of the study. It seems to me one reason the liquid works better is due to the PPG content. I have read some theories that it is partially responsible for the hair growth that people achieve. so since the foam does not contain it, it does not grow as much hair as the liquid.

Btw...I contact Pfzier twice trying to get this info on hair counts, but they never provided it to me, seem like they do not want this info to become very public, it might hurt thier sales on the foam.
 

Bryan

Senior Member
Staff member
Reaction score
42
LookingForAnswers said:
It seems to me one reason the liquid works better is due to the PPG content. I have read some theories that it is partially responsible for the hair growth that people achieve.

That's what Dr. Proctor used to say for years over on alt.baldspot, that the propylene glycol in Rogaine accounts for about HALF of the results. Personally, I'm not quite sure what to think about that...
 

Tikimik

New Member
Reaction score
1
This is 20 hair counts in a target area, which is usually 1 inch in diameter according to most of the studies I've read.

20 hair count is not bad considering something like avodart alone has shown in a, I think it was 16 week period, 98 hairs. So the combined 118 hairs in a 1 inch diameter is pretty impressive with the proper regimen.

Throw nizoral in there and who knows.

I can find the study for the avodart if anyone would like to see the stats. It's a pretty popular chart so I just assume anyone interested in Avodart has already seen it.
 
Reaction score
0
Tikimik said:
This is 20 hair counts in a target area, which is usually 1 inch in diameter according to most of the studies I've read.

20 hair count is not bad considering something like avodart alone has shown in a, I think it was 16 week period, 98 hairs. So the combined 118 hairs in a 1 inch diameter is pretty impressive with the proper regimen.

Throw nizoral in there and who knows.

I can find the study for the avodart if anyone would like to see the stats. It's a pretty popular chart so I just assume anyone interested in Avodart has already seen it.


IMO, growth of this magnitude is not even worth the effort, when compared to numbers in the liquid trials. As a comparison I am posting an pubmed abstract which notes results at the end of 4 months, sames as the foam trial.

Use of topical minoxidil in the treatment of male pattern baldness.
Savin RC.
This 12-month, double-blind, randomized study evaluated the safety and efficacy of topical minoxidil in the treatment of male pattern baldness. Three formulations were compared: 2% minoxidil solution, 3% minoxidil solution, and placebo. After 4 months all placebo patients crossed over to treatment with the 3% solution. Of the 96 patients randomized into the study, 79 were evaluable at month 12; 25 of these were in the 2% minoxidil group, 24 were in the 3% minoxidil group, and 29 were in the placebo-to-3% solution switchover group. At monthly intervals a hair count was obtained within a 1-inch diameter area on the scalp vertex. In addition, a gross visual estimate of the degree of new hair growth over the entire balding area was made independently by the investigator and the patient. At the end of 4 months there was significant regrowth of nonvellus (terminal and indeterminate) hairs in the patients using the 2% and 3% solutions (p = 0.0001). The mean nonvellus hair count at month 4 was 162.8 in the 2% minoxidil group, 155.4 in the 3% minoxidil group, and 107.1 in the placebo group. The mean increase in the 2% and 3% treatment groups was 58.2 and 48.8, respectively, whereas the mean increase in the placebo group was 4.0. Total hair counts at month 4 demonstrated significantly more growth of hair in the 2% minoxidil group than in the placebo group (p = 0.013), with no significant difference between the 3% minoxidil group and the other two treatment groups.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 3549804 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]




Bottom line, "The mean increase in the 2% and 3% treatment groups was 58.2 and 48.8, respectively, whereas the mean increase in the placebo group was 4.0", this is 2.5-3.0 times the growth seen with the foam. It is obvious which is the more worthwhile treatment.

PS...this is not even a study with the stronger 5% solution, which I am sure would have been even better.
 
Reaction score
0
Bryan said:
LookingForAnswers said:
It seems to me one reason the liquid works better is due to the PPG content. I have read some theories that it is partially responsible for the hair growth that people achieve.

That's what Dr. Proctor used to say for years over on alt.baldspot, that the propylene glycol in Rogaine accounts for about HALF of the results. Personally, I'm not quite sure what to think about that...


Bryan...

Thank you for pointing this out, perhaps it was his theory I had read, not really sure. I am confident the PPG plays a role in the effectiveness of the liquid version, but to what extent is unclear.
 

Tikimik

New Member
Reaction score
1
LookingForAnswers said:
IMO, growth of this magnitude is not even worth the effort, when compared to numbers in the liquid trials. As a comparison I am posting an pubmed abstract which notes results at the end of 4 months, sames as the foam trial.

Use of topical minoxidil in the treatment of male pattern baldness.
Savin RC.
This 12-month, double-blind, randomized study evaluated the safety and efficacy of topical minoxidil in the treatment of male pattern baldness. Three formulations were compared: 2% minoxidil solution, 3% minoxidil solution, and placebo. After 4 months all placebo patients crossed over to treatment with the 3% solution. Of the 96 patients randomized into the study, 79 were evaluable at month 12; 25 of these were in the 2% minoxidil group, 24 were in the 3% minoxidil group, and 29 were in the placebo-to-3% solution switchover group. At monthly intervals a hair count was obtained within a 1-inch diameter area on the scalp vertex. In addition, a gross visual estimate of the degree of new hair growth over the entire balding area was made independently by the investigator and the patient. At the end of 4 months there was significant regrowth of nonvellus (terminal and indeterminate) hairs in the patients using the 2% and 3% solutions (p = 0.0001). The mean nonvellus hair count at month 4 was 162.8 in the 2% minoxidil group, 155.4 in the 3% minoxidil group, and 107.1 in the placebo group. The mean increase in the 2% and 3% treatment groups was 58.2 and 48.8, respectively, whereas the mean increase in the placebo group was 4.0. Total hair counts at month 4 demonstrated significantly more growth of hair in the 2% minoxidil group than in the placebo group (p = 0.013), with no significant difference between the 3% minoxidil group and the other two treatment groups.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

PMID: 3549804 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]




Bottom line, "The mean increase in the 2% and 3% treatment groups was 58.2 and 48.8, respectively, whereas the mean increase in the placebo group was 4.0", this is 2.5-3.0 times the growth seen with the foam. It is obvious which is the more worthwhile treatment.

PS...this is not even a study with the stronger 5% solution, which I am sure would have been even better.


This is exactly what this forum needs more of.

Substantiated evidence of trials.

Can you also send a link to this study?

That is very impressive.

However if someone just CAN'T at ALL stand the grease of the liquid rogaine no matter how much they try, the foam is not a bad substitute. At least it helps to not just grow 20 hairs, but slow down / stop the balding process right?
 
Reaction score
0
Tikimik said:
However if someone just CAN'T at ALL stand the grease of the liquid rogaine no matter how much they try, the foam is not a bad substitute. At least it helps to not just grow 20 hairs, but slow down / stop the balding process right?

I guess, something is better than nothing. The whole point was to bring out information on the foam and how it compares to the liquid version so people can make a more informed decision instead of just relying on the advice of others. Personally, I just started using the liquid in conjunction with Retin-A, it appears that this is the most potent combo at this time if you are looking for growth.

Her is the link to the liquid study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3549 ... rom=pubmed
 

BaldButCute

New Member
Reaction score
0
This really sucks! I have been using the crap for almost 6 months and have nothing to show for it, wish I would have known the foam was not any good before I wasted so much time. Six months down the drain. What is the RetinA stuff, do you need a prescription for it???
 

ginger-uk

Established Member
Reaction score
0
I've had a year down the drain mate. Not to mention I started finasteride at the same time as I switch to foam and lost hair. So I have wasted a whol f*****g year after endless recommendations on here for the stuff. I'm on Kirkland 5% and hairmuck now. Only a week in, but I am hoping I can get back to where I was a year ago at least! Gutted....
 

JWM

Senior Member
Reaction score
3
So then why am I reading all this 85% effective in regrowing hair as compared to the 55% with the liquid?
 

JWM

Senior Member
Reaction score
3
So you're saying it's a blatant lie? How can the FDA have allowed this? It doesn't add up.
 

JWM

Senior Member
Reaction score
3
Alright, alright, alright, let me clarify here.

Rogaine Liquid (5%) claimed to grow hair in 55% of hair in people correct?

Rogaine Foam claimed to grow 85%, yet this is not true.

Are you telling me there is a DIRECT, head-to-head study between the foam and the liquid where the liquid OUTPERFORMED the foam or are we comparing to seperate studies against a placebo?

I know some folks here claim better results with the foam and vice versa, but the information here is unsettling.
 
Top