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MPB research: Black tea reduces DHT 72%, Propecia 70%

Discussion in 'New Research, Studies, and Technologies' started by michael barry, Jul 30, 2009.

  1. michael barry

    michael barry Senior Member

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    Note: These folks are trumpeting the same mouse study I was talking about a while back. They seem to be in favor of taking black tea theaflavins in the form of a supplement. I dont know how long theaflavins from black tea are "bioactive" in the body. The mice in this study were given only black tea to drink as their sole beverage, so when the little creatures were thirsty, they had to drink black tea (or green tea or soy-infused liquids, et cetera). Therefore, the mice were getting tea probably at least every four or five hours while awake. Is a theaflavin supplement going to last long enough with one pill a day to inhibit alpha five reductase for 24 full hours, or would it have to be taken 2-3 times a day? I dont know, and without human testing, we never will either. That caveat aside, here is the link and Ive pasted the article from MPB research (I get this in my email even though I didn't ask for it):

    http://www.hairloss-research.org/LinkUp ... a7-09.html

    Propecia Reduces DHT by 71% Black Tea Reduces DHT by 72%




    Black Tea consumption, according to this study done on mice at Harvard University lowered DHT levels by 72% and raised testosterone by 35%. Finasteride, (Propecia/Proscar) reduces DHT levels in both male humans and rats by 70%.

    Nutrition and Cancer

    Soy Phytochemicals and Tea Bioactive Components Synergistically Inhibit Androgen-Sensitive Human Prostate Tumors in Mice

    Nutrition/Metabolism Laboratory, Department of Surgery, Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Harvard Medical School, Boston, MA


    ABSTRACT

    Although high doses of single bioactive agents may have potent anticancer effects, the chemopreventive properties of the Asian diet may result from interactions among several components that potentiate the activities of any single constituent. In Asia, where intake of soy products and tea consumption are very high, aggressive prostate cancer is significantly less prevalent in Asian men. The objective of the present study was to identify possible synergistic effects between soy and tea components on prostate tumor progression in a mouse model of orthotopic androgen-sensitive human prostate cancer. Soy phytochemical concentrate (SPC), black tea and green tea were compared with respect to tumorigenicity rate, primary tumor growth, tumor proliferation index and microvessel density, serum androgen level and metastases to lymph nodes. SPC, black tea and green tea significantly reduced tumorigenicity. SPC and black tea also significantly reduced final tumor weights. Green tea did not reduce final tumor weight, although it tended to elevate (P = 0.14) the serum dihydrotestosterone (DHT) concentration. The combination of SPC and black tea synergistically inhibited prostate tumorigenicity, final tumor weight and metastases to lymph nodes in vivo. The combination of SPC and green tea synergistically inhibited final tumor weight and metastasis and significantly reduced serum concentrations of both testosterone and DHT in vivo. Inhibition of tumor progression was associated with reduced tumor cell proliferation and tumor angiogenesis. This study suggests that further research is warranted to study the role of soy and tea combination as effective nutritional regimens in prostate cancer prevention.

    Although the DHT lowering effect of Black Tea `was not mentioned in the abstract, we obtained and reviewed the entire study including this revealing snippet:


    Combined effects of soy phytochemicals and tea on serum testosterone and DHT concentrations.

    “Mice treated with black tea (via standard,steeped beverage)tended to have a greater serum testosterone concentration (34.4%, P = 0.50) and had a 72% lower DHT concentration than controls (P < 0.05), suggesting that black tea may contain components that inhibit the activity of 5 -reductase, an enzyme that converts testosterone to the more bioactive DHT.â€￾

    This study also showed that the consumption of Green Tea as a beverage combined with Soy Isoflavone Concentrate significantly reduced DHT levels, and to some degree testosterone. Curiously it was found that the singular consumption of Green Tea raised both testosterone and DHT levels.

    The implications of potential benefits to humans with Androgenetic Alopecia are significant.

    It would appear reasonable based upon these findings that exclusive consumption of Black Tea or Black Tea Extract (Theaflavins) would likely reduce serum DHT to the same level as Propecia, and that the concurrent consumption of Soy Isoflavones or Soy Isoflavones with Green Tea would produce an additive effect.

    Human studies done thus far on Soy and its’ effects on reproductive hormones in men in males indicate no apparent negative effect. It has also been established that Green Tea to some degree, suppresses androgen receptor signaling and inhibits both 5 alpha reductase isozymes. Green Tea and Grape Seed Extracts have been successfully combined with Taurine by L’Oreal to stop hair loss and promote hair growth. Based on this study however, some may feel that Green Tea should only be consumed with Soy. Given Green Tea's multitude of anti-androgenic actions and the increase in SHBG (low levels of SHBG are associated with male pattern hair loss) that Green tea consumption causes, it is our position that Green Tea, even if singularly consumed, will likely benefit those with hair loss.

    It is well established that the incidence of male and female pattern balding in the rural Orient is a small fraction of what it is here in the United States, and that the incidence of Androgenetic Alopecia among Asians who live in the U.S. is much higher than those living in the Orient. Soy based foods, a dietary staple, and the regular beverage consumption of Green and Black Teas factor significantly, and are perhaps causative, in this phenomenon.

    The sexual side effects, including oft occurring Gynocomastia,(male breast enlargement), and the more ominous potential neurological side effects associated with finasteride (Propecia/Proscar), uncovered in the last few years, seem to make it less of a viable option. This compelling in vivo study provides direct evidence that blood levels of DHT can be reduced to a level equivalent to that of Propecia, in a natural, healthy, more cost effective way.

    Exclusive consumption of strongly brewed Black Tea, as done by rats in this study to obtain a decrease in DHT and increase in Testosterone would not be practical for humans. Black Tea Extracts (Theaflavins) are available and contain Black Tea constituents at concentrations well above what would be obtainable via oral consumption.


    Theaflavin Standardized Extract


    An increasing number of scientists recognize the critical need to protect the arterial wall against low-density lipoprotein (LDL) oxidation and inflammatory insults. Research has shown that unique extracts present in black tea called theaflavins can have multiple applications for arterial health.

    Theaflavin Standardized Extract contains a number of beneficial flavonoids found naturally in tea leaves that help support levels of cholesterol that are already within the normal range.

    Theaflavins have been shown in human studies to protect against LDL oxidation and favorably affect endothelial function, thus helping to maintain healthy circulation.

    Scientists have also found that black tea flavonoids possess strong antioxidant properties, which can help mitigate oxidative damage to cells and tissues from free radicals. In addition, theaflavins have been found to be helpful in down-regulating key inflammatory mediators, (several of which factor significantly into hormone related hair loss) in the body, thus helping to preserve cellular integrity.
     
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  2. ComeOnPropy

    ComeOnPropy Member

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    This website just loves to knock propecia no matter what they do, i bet they get a slice of the profit from selling life extension suppliments.
     
  3. Nashville Hairline

    Nashville Hairline Experienced Member

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    Very interesting, however I wish these studies would mention actual quantities of the teas administered. Of course, like most people from Ireland/UK I drink black tea (with milk) every day.
     
  4. somone uk

    somone uk Experienced Member

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    you are telling me a drink often drank in uk by older balder generations can inhibit DHT better than a drug specially developed for this
    it's become too much of a snakeoil cliche to claim "plant product x will inhibit DHT better than finesteride" or "plant extract oil Y will regrow better than minoxidil", and it's total bollocks i would find something plausible if they would say it's not as effective and then said it might have side effects but they never do
    you can't cheat the equation, more effective = more side effects
     
  5. toivonen

    toivonen Member

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    1st of all "HE" is not telling you nothing, he's informing you of a study done and theire results!

    2nd You're telling me that Malaria (one of the great diseases in some parts of the world for a long period of time) was cured by taking quinine, aan extract of plants?!

    3rd Don't tell me that you've also don't know that people (the millions around the world) that been using Minoxidil for more than 2 decades and Finasteride for more than one decade, are now completly cured and that MPB is a problem that only exists for people that don't use them..?

    AHAH...in case you don't notice, i'm beeing ironic, and the reason for that is statements liek your that always slam everything that comes and shows a litte promisse...using such "solid" (caugh, caugh) arguments, that one can only reply them in this ironic way!

    Now for more serious things, it would be really nice to see how this could be used in humans in a pratical way (via an extract, more concentradted than the normal black tea that we usually take), and if similar results were obtained...nevertheless, i've been taking them the same way i do for almost years now (almost since i've dropped Propecia), and have nothing to say badly..i've mantained my hair, the same way i did when taking Propecia, and been more healthy than ever (of course, by having other health habbits to).
     
  6. patagonia

    patagonia Member

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    Very interesting post as usual Michael.

    Ive wondered since you posted that mouse-black tea study, of what would be the effect on humans... I wish they would do a proper study on it.

    Maybe it will come from Asia where lots of new studies seem to be coming from Japan and Korea. They seem to be interested in doing good research on different plants and herbs.
     
  7. somone uk

    somone uk Experienced Member

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    ok i'll give it a fair trial then
    first of all science is a VERY specific subject and very numerical
    no results table nor graphs = bad science (few exceptions but this certainly is not one of them)
    there was:
    -no measurement of how much tea was given to the rats nor how strong
    -the finesteride dosage was missing
    -they jumped to the conclusion it inhibited 5 alpha reductase without investigating it's effects on testosterone
    -the group sizes were not given for the rats in any category, 1 rat is not conclusive
    -they only measured sebum DHT which is a measurement of how much leaves the body, sebum DHT is probably the least relevant measurement because that is the amount of DHT leaving the body via Sebaceous gland as a matter of fact if tea ended up blocking DHT excretion via sebum it would make hairloss WORSE because it would suggest that more DHT is left in the body
     
  8. toivonen

    toivonen Member

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    Don't get me wrong, i'm not a pro-nature freak...i also like things beeing tested to the exaustion, and that is only possible by big money companys.
    Wich is not to say that a cure can't be started by an not totaly conclusive but with some potential research/study like this one!
    Oh, and if ot's tru that this study lacks in some subjects, don't fall in your own words, when you say that science is numbers and specific subjects, surelly your not refering to the last part of your post, when you make a personal interpretation and possible conclusion, only based in your opinion..that's even less scientific than these kinds of studies..isn't it?!

    I know that we're all biased, somehow...but i tend to fight that against myself and against anyone that by beeing biased, shut's the door completly, to anything new...true, one must be very carefull in what to interpretate and believe, but true that many significan scientific steps were started by many people that started with experiemnts that for the standards of that time were judged as ridicolous /not fundamented/ etc...i don't keed to say who or what, there are many known cases.

    Also the important part of my previous part was to show, that because something is natural can't be efective, and that sometimes aprooved drugs (god knows sometimes in what way, just read how aspartame was aprooved by the FDA or how coicidently after Gilead Sciences sold the patent of the active of Tamiflu, starnge outbreaks of flew came to life...same man involved in those storys...Donald Rumsfeld!!!) don't mean that are totaly efective or lacking dangerous side effects...M inoxidil/Finasteride are very well placed in that dept to!..and the other thing is, if they were the cure or that much effective in MPB, why there's always been so many people in these forums, come to think of it..why did these forums originated?!?...i can still find baldness in every corner, and by people that used those two "wonder" drugs!

    Oh, talking about the hypped Tamiflu and the power of nature based actives...do you know from wher is made it's main active Shikimic acid??...from star aniseed!! Eheh..mother nature is a powerfull bitch, isn't it?!?? :innocent:

    Let us go ower own paths, but don't shut the door, just because something is not fully tested..a begining is just that...a begining..let us hope that Black tea, or anything natural or not can become an effective "weapon" to our comun problem...to me it has been much more than that, in much more important health subjects.
     
  9. TEDDYRUXPIN

    TEDDYRUXPIN Member

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    What a pile..........................of sh....

    Tea has been on the list of growth for a while. Like coffee etc etc..... But relying on it, will be like relying on tea to cure AIDS.
     
  10. michael barry

    michael barry Senior Member

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    Let me state one thing quickly for everyone to keep in mind.

    The tea in this experiment, and a RAT experiment I'm about to post, was brewed tea, not storebought tea. When you brew tea from tea-bags, it has many MANY times (like 7 or 8 times) the amount of theaflavins, catechins, and flavinoids therein.

    The MICE in the first experiment were only given black tea to drink and NOTHING else. So when they were thirsty, they drank black tea. They were getting it all day long. I DO NOT think that drinking one glass of home brewed black tea a day would be effective, even if these results do translate to humans. It would be more like a glass for breakfast, lunch, after-work snack, and dinner, and thats assuming it works.




    We know finasteride does two things: It inhibits about 70% of DHT production by inhibiting alpha five reductase type 2 enzyme, and it ups your testosterone levels moderately.
    Black tea did just that with mice. It upped testosterone about 34%, and inhibited 72% of serum-levels of DHT. This was tested on four mice, so its not some fluke.



    Here is a rat-study showing black tea also INCREASED testosterone and libido in rats:

    1: J Ethnopharmacol. 2008 Aug 13;118(3):373-7. Epub 2008 May 4. Links
    Effect of black tea brew of Camellia sinensis on sexual competence of male rats.Ratnasooriya WD, Fernando TS.
    Department of Zoology, University of Colombo, Colombo 03, Sri Lanka. wdr@zoology.cmb.ac.lk

    AIM: In Sri Lankan traditional medicine black tea brew (BTB) of Camellia sinensis (L.) O. Kuntze (Theaceae) is claimed to have male sexual stimulant activity. As this claim is not scientifically tested and proven, this study was undertaken to evaluate the effects of BTB on male sexual competence. MATERIAL AND METHODS: Different doses of BTB made from Sri Lankan high grown dust grade no 1 tea (84, 167 and 501 mg/ml) or water were orally administered to separate groups of rats (n=9 per group) and 3h later their sexual behaviour were monitored (for 15 min) using receptive females. RESULTS: The overall results showed that BTB possesses marked aphrodisiac activity (in terms of prolongation of latency of ejaculation shortening of mount- and intromission latencies and elevation of serum testosterone level). The aphrodisiac action had a rapid onset and appears to be mediated via inhibition of anxiety and elevation of serum testosterone level. Further, this aphrodisiac action was not associated with impairment of other sexual parameters like libido, sexual motivation, sexual arousal, sexual vigour or penile erection. BTB was also nontoxic (in terms of overt signs, liver and renal toxicity). CONCLUSIONS: It is concluded that BTB can function as a quick acting, safe, oral aphrodisiac which may also be useful in certain forms of sexual inadequacies such as premature ejaculation and impaired libido and other sexual functions.
    PMID: 18565706 [PubMed - in process]
     
  11. squeegee

    squeegee Banned

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  12. toivonen

    toivonen Member

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    Yes, for the ones who have enough mind to be skeptical, but also to leave some "room" to see this (and other potential good actives) as a possible efective alternative..that's what we should focus...what quatity must be used to simulate these results in humans, and the best way to do it..wich i suspect would be by a form of a good rich suplement..that one looks interesting, i'll see if i can fin more..
    Meanwhile, it would be great if someone could contact some of the people involved in that study, so they could share some more information..altough i think that some more substatiated studys will follow...i hope, at least! :)
     
  13. JLL

    JLL Member

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    Not sure if plasma antioxidant levels and effects on androgens are directly related, but in humans, the peak increase in antioxidant activity occurs 20-40 after ingesting tea and lasts for at least two hours. Unfortunately, the authors did not measure antioxidant levels after 2 hours.

    Green tea increases antioxidant levels more than black tea, but black tea works too. Not adding milk is probably a good idea, as it's uncertain whether the casein in milk binds to catechins and theaflavins or not. It does reduce the antioxidant activity slightly, at least.

    Here's a comparison of how one, two and three cups of green raise plasma antioxidant activity. While the effect is dose-dependent, I would rather spread out the intake throughout the day and aim for about ten cups of tea, which has been shown to be healthy and not harmful. Note that Asians reuse the same leaves 3-4 times. The amount of catechins and theaflavins in tea depends on how long the tea is brewed for; the longer the better. So I think reusing the leaves in this case is a good thing, since it allows more of the theaflavins/catechins to be released while not making the tea too bitter to drink.

    One possibility to increase the absorption of theaflavins is black pepper (or piperine, to be precise). Piperine increases the bioavailability of green tea catechins and curcumin, and while I haven't seen a paper on this, I imagine it might do the same to theaflavins.

    Finally, while the paper you quote does show that mice who drank green tea had higher levels of DHT, I would like to see different doses being compared. For example, in prostate cancer cells, green tea can either increase (low doses) or decrease (high doses) proliferation.

    Granted, this was an in vitro study, but it does raise the possibility that perhaps theaflavins' effect on androgens also depends on the dose and how often it's consumed, as you speculate.
     
  14. abcdefg

    abcdefg Senior Member

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    They also say no human could drink enough black tea to have any real effect. So unless you buy a supplement your wasting your time and money in terms of it doing anything for MPB. Then we are back at the very basic problem of supplements being unregulated. They are all different doses, different ingredients, and in all kinds of forms like powders or extracts. Where do I buy black tea extract and in what dose would it be safe? Should I try to find this instead - Theaflavin Standardized Extract ? what if I cant find any of these?
     
  15. toivonen

    toivonen Member

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    Don't forget that the big plus in this experiment with black tea, is that in similar way to green tea it increased Testosterone, but unlike green tea it reduced/inhibited DHT in a much higher level...at least in this experiment.

    If you want to try it, i think the best suplement is this:

    http://www.lef.org/Vitamins-Supplements ... tract.html

    LEF always been a reliable source of products. I'm going to try them.
     
  16. squeegee

    squeegee Banned

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    you can buy 4 of them for 52 bucks. http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-The ... 10451?at=0

    not too bad.
     
  17. squeegee

    squeegee Banned

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    Black tea extracts show promise as both topical and orally-active inhibitors of inflammation, according to research from Rutgers university to be presented at the Worldnutra conference in Las Vegas at the end of September.

    In a study on mice, Dr Chi-Tang Ho and colleagues from Rutgers' Department of Food Science found that theaflavins, naturally-occurring constituents of black tea, inhibited inflammation caused by a 'topical pro-inflammatory agent'.

    Black tea extracts and beverages could therefore be used to keep inflammation at bay, said Ho.

    When animals were given the mixture of pure theaflavins orally the inflammation was reduced by almost 70 per cent. Ho said that "the magnitude of the anti-inflammatory results were surprising but complements our earlier work with theaflavins".

    The team said it also found a synergistic effect with an anti-inflammatory drug, sulindac, marketed by Merck as Clinoril.

    Scientists have found that theaflavins uniquely down-regulate the expression of genes and cytokines associated with inflammatory conditions.
     
  18. JLL

    JLL Member

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    I don't know how they arrived at that conclusion. 10 cups of black daily would contain a significant amount of theaflavins, and I'm sure one could drink even more tea if one was so inclined.
     
  19. abcdefg

    abcdefg Senior Member

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    Well they didnt say exactly that.

    They said this maybe for different reasons:
    Exclusive consumption of strongly brewed Black Tea, as done by rats in this study to obtain a decrease in DHT and increase in Testosterone would not be practical for humans.
     
  20. patagonia

    patagonia Member

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    not long ago I started drinking black tea when I was studying for exams.
    I never liked coffee because it made me nervous but discovered black tea gave me that alert/sharp state of mind while at the same time relaxing me a bit... (Ive read since that black tea lowers cortisol levels.)

    the other thing Ive noticed with black tea is that my libido and mood elevate as well....(rise in testosterone)
     

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