Kintor has started Phase 3 trial in China for Pyrilutamide

trialAcc

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My question is, if this ends up working and get released to the market, could this be able to stop hair loss for people like me who is on dutasteride and oral minoxidil and still slowly losing ground or it wont be that powerful as dutasteride + oral min??? Could this be stacked with dutasteride and minoxidil for further efficacy?
Can be stacked, wont be as powerful as either of those though in my opinion. Topical AAs are not going to work as well as oral medications for most people, but I guess we will have to wait and see.
 

Adri23

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Can be stacked, wont be as powerful as either of those though in my opinion. Topical AAs are not going to work as well as oral medications for most people, but I guess we will have to wait and see.
As long as it can be stacked and stop my hairloss, I'm pretty fine with it.
 

trialAcc

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Marketing based on reality. Anyway hope this won't turn out to be the next big flop.

I'm very cautious with everything coming from China though


China’s ‘paper mills’ are grinding out fake scientific research at an alarming rate​


Seeking promotions and financial rewards, doctors and researchers are fueling a thriving industry that produces bogus studies for cash

I'm not getting into this with you. You've shown countless times how you will cling to anything that confirms your biases.

The trials are on-going in the US under the FDA as well, so clearly they deemed the preclinical and phase 1 data from the US trials to be legitimate enough to approve further trials. Some out of context and irrelevant news story that basically says "China bad" isn't going to change that.
 
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5minutesbeforemiracle

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Lol at your emotional response because I posted an article about how one of their phase III trials failed and the fact China has a big problem with fake science. I'm neutral, I'll wait for phase II results. But not everything that Kintor shits out is gold like you desperately want to believe.
Did you read the article, or just the headline? They weren't able to draw any conclusions on the efficacy of their drug because almost no one ended up getting sick enough from Covid that that they had to go to hospital.
 

hmmmmmmmm

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Just read that they failed their Phase III trial.
You're unambiguously correct that it's a failed trial - no decision about efficacy could be made

I don't think it was completely their fault since they couldn't control the endpoints or confounders:
-average age 38 and measuring covid hospitalizations on/off drug?
-everyone getting vaccinated while trial was ongoing?

That being said - why didn't they file to amend or suspend and restart the trial with better endpoints when it was obvious it would fail?

This and the Brazil issue make it seem like Kintor doesn't manage their larger trials very well
 

Micky_007

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Did you read the article, or just the headline? They weren't able to draw any conclusions on the efficacy of their drug because almost no one ended up getting sick enough from Covid that that they had to go to hospital.

Pigeon is right in the essence of what he is trying to say. It's not about the trial being invalid, it's about the fact that the patients who were recruited for the phase 3 trial weren't screened properly. You can't be in the research field and want to be considered a reputable company and be making "mistakes" like that. It could be interpreted that they tried to con their way through the trial by selecting patients who had a better chance of recovery. The 80% share price drop speaks for itself and big money surely knows that too.

I want Kintors treatments to work as much as every optimistic person here, but I believe we should all exercise caution too.
 

hmmmmmmmm

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Hmm... shouldn't the subjects not know how well the other participants in the trial are doing? If you hear ppl are regrowing hair, it can contribute to creating a placebo effect whether you're getting the placebo or the real deal.
Yes, I really hope these stories about subjects talking to each other aren't true
 

trialAcc

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Lol at your emotional response because I posted an article about how one of their phase III trials failed and the fact China has a big problem with fake science. I'm neutral, I'll wait for phase II results. But not everything that Kintor shits out is gold like you desperately want to believe.
An emotional response is one that highlights how you can't be reasoned with and then proceeds to give you straight facts about the trials?

You didn't even bother to educate yourself on what happened with the phase 3 trials before coming on here to say they failed and post a random article about fake Chinese research papers. You're biased, that's it.
 

badnewsbearer

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Pigeon is right in the essence of what he is trying to say. It's not about the trial being invalid, it's about the fact that the patients who were recruited for the phase 3 trial weren't screened properly. You can't be in the research field and want to be considered a reputable company and be making "mistakes" like that. It could be interpreted that they tried to con their way through the trial by selecting patients who had a better chance of recovery. The 80% share price drop speaks for itself and big money surely knows that too.

I want Kintors treatments to work as much as every optimistic person here, but I believe we should all exercise caution too.
to be fair this was kind of not the intention of proxilutamide which aims to be a prostate cancer drug and not a covid drug, covid came very rapidly, its not like they planned this out 3 years aheas like you normally do in clinical research. still the methology was gwrbage
 

5minutesbeforemiracle

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Pigeon is right in the essence of what he is trying to say. It's not about the trial being invalid, it's about the fact that the patients who were recruited for the phase 3 trial weren't screened properly. You can't be in the research field and want to be considered a reputable company and be making "mistakes" like that. It could be interpreted that they tried to con their way through the trial by selecting patients who had a better chance of recovery. The 80% share price drop speaks for itself and big money surely knows that too.

I want Kintors treatments to work as much as every optimistic person here, but I believe we should all exercise caution too.
I agree with what you're saying - it's really quite an amateurish error and is not a good look for Kintor. But to me it seemed like Pigeon was implying that they produced an ineffective drug, which is simply impossible to tell from their (lack of) results.
 

pegasus2

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Hmm... shouldn't the subjects not know how well the other participants in the trial are doing? If you hear ppl are regrowing hair, it can contribute to creating a placebo effect whether you're getting the placebo or the real deal.
Unless the primary outcome is patient self-assessment that doesn't matter. The trichoscope will tell how much hair they grew. The problem with that is if they aren't getting results they'll assume they are in the placebo group and start taking minoxidil.
 

Adri23

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Unless the primary outcome is patient self-assessment that doesn't matter. The trichoscope will tell how much hair they grew. The problem with that is if they aren't getting results they'll assume they are in the placebo group and start taking minoxidil.
Don't they sign a contract or something to only take that medication during the time the study is ongoing?
 

pegasus2

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Don't they sign a contract or something to only take that medication during the time the study is ongoing?
People would never lie. Ever wonder why some of these placebo groups have hair count increases? It's because a few of them are lying. Sometimes it's seasonal, but humans don't have a great deal of seasonal hair growth
 

champpy

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If all goes well with the Chinese approval, how much longer would it take before it was approved in the US? Anyone have any ideas?
 

Dimitri001

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Unless the primary outcome is patient self-assessment that doesn't matter. The trichoscope will tell how much hair they grew. The problem with that is if they aren't getting results they'll assume they are in the placebo group and start taking minoxidil.
I'm not saying they'd be fooled into thinking they regrew hair when they didn't, I'm saying hearing it works would induce or amplify a placebo effect, meaning an actual, real effect.
 

hmmmmmmmm

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I'm not saying they'd be fooled into thinking they regrew hair when they didn't, I'm saying hearing it works would induce or amplify a placebo effect, meaning an actual, real effect.
The risks are that people get unblinded, that they influence each other's behaviour or reporting of adverse effects, and that it implies poor study design or management. Placebo effect is just one downstream issue of unblinding

If you talk to another subject and figure out that you're in the placebo group, you may stop complying or even start another treatment without telling researchers.

One person might report that KX gave them weird dreams, and suddenly you have a dozen subjects reporting weird dreams.

Basically all the dumb stuff that happens in the discord groups now becomes possible in a clinical trial, with no upside
 

hmmmmmmmm

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to clarify - data bias won't matter much in this case, since it's a pretty vanilla chemical with a well understood mechanism, good dosing and safety data, and they've already decided to proceed to a multicenter phase III trial on top of a US phase II one

mostly it would be bad in terms of the confidence you could have in a new company being able to run a high quality trial
 

pegasus2

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I'm not saying they'd be fooled into thinking they regrew hair when they didn't, I'm saying hearing it works would induce or amplify a placebo effect, meaning an actual, real effect.
I'm not sure how you could placebo yourself into hair growth. I think this is impossible. Positive thinking won't grow hair. Of course it's amatuerish to allow trial subjects to talk to each other, but in the case of a hair loss trial I don't think it's such a big deal aside from side effects.
 
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