Is the dermarolling bandwagon OVER???

[Homie]

So, what do we have.

People have been dermarolling for years - never seen or heard of any great results.

New study comes out. It reports MIRACULOUS results from dermarolling. Turns out there may have been self-interested behavior behind the study (one of researchers may have owned a dermarolling clinic). And since the study, hundreds of people have been dermarolling hard for months, and no one has had results even close to the study. I have yet to see ANY pictures with real results even REMOTELY close to those from the study.

People in the threads are now asking "what are we doing wrong? what can we do differently?"

I feel that this is just another passing fad where a few excitable people go out, claim they are having results, others try and it doesn't pan out, and it is to be resigned to the balding dustbin.

 

[hellouser]

Was it really necessary to create a whole thread about this?

 

[Homie]

Necessary in the sense that it is needed to survive in this cruel world? No. Necessary to tee up some discussion on where dermarolling is really heading? Absolutely.

 

[jasperhobbs]

I think it is a good topic with valid points. The jury is still out whether derma rolling actually works.

Jasper

Was it really necessary to create a whole thread about this?

 

[Sparky4444]

you need to apply minoxidil with DR'ing...that's what the study did....listen, DR"ing alone won't get it done....too many dipwads on here are coming up with their own theories, schedules, blah blah blah...just DR 1x week and minoxidil every day

 

[DesperateOne]

What seems to amaze me is that the thread is so long and yet newcomers didn't even read the main study where the protocol is being used. If you do then you would see why.

 

[TMNK]

I agree. It is funny that NO ONE had anything near the same results as in the study. It smells a bit.

 

[bboy4]

The theoretical basis for Dermarolling is just too strong to ignore. Firstly we know for a fact that rolling breakdown fibrosis, hence it's use for scars. We know for a fact that balding scalps accumulate fibrosis around the follicles and this restricts movements of cells around the follicle. The evidence is then pretty strong that fibrosis is an actual physical block on hair growing. This has been the excepted view for a long time, nothing controversial about it, but fibrosis has always been ignored really because we thought once it settles in it's game over. But now we have dermarolling. Whether that study was fake or not is almost irrelevant. That's not all, for the first time we have an actual mechanical intervention to play with, no solution, purity or delivery problems. The only modalities we have to worry about are time, intensity and depth. The follicle can be up to 4mm deep so it's possible that's how deep we would need to roll to see maximum results. That's why squeegee was rolling with a 3mm. He was the most important self appointed dermarolling guinea pig we had and it's crazy he got banned. All that and we haven't even started talking about growth factors.

 

[peacemaker]

I agree with bboy completely. There are really solid arguments for derma roller's ability to create new follicles. Read Cotsarelis' articles on wounding. His life literally revolves around wounding. In our derma rolling experiments, we try to recreate their laboratory experiments in a really simple way.

What has lowered down our expectations recently is the fact that despite the initial gains, derma rolling is not THE CURE. People cannot be sure whether their gains will continue. Also, some people (who mostly are also on other treatments that can interfere) haven't had noticeable gains.

However, it may as well be a crucial part of the cure. Cotsarelis has also identified why it alone is not enough to cause a big impact in such short term: we are not mice; we do not have the growth-factor (Fgf9) producing T cells in our skin. The growth factor is essential for the Wnt pathway signaling process and I assume that he is currently figuring out a way to integrate exogenous growth factors to his wounding method without compromising overall health.

 

[swingline747]

I agree with bboy completely. There are really solid arguments for derma roller's ability to create new follicles. Read Cotsarelis' articles on wounding. His life literally revolves around wounding. In our derma rolling experiments, we try to recreate their laboratory experiments in a really simple way.

What has lowered down our expectations recently is the fact that despite the initial gains, derma rolling is not THE CURE. People cannot be sure whether their gains will continue. Also, some people (who mostly are also on other treatments that can interfere) haven't had noticeable gains.

However, it may as well be a crucial part of the cure. Cotsarelis has also identified why it alone is not enough to cause a big impact in such short term: we are not mice; we do not have the growth-factor (Fgf9) producing T cells in our skin. The growth factor is essential for the Wnt pathway signaling process and I assume that he is currently figuring out a way to integrate exogenous growth factors to his wounding method without compromising overall health.

4mm deep?
Honestly the skin up there doesnt seem 4mm deep lol, at 1.5 I SWEAR Im tapping skull on my dome tip.
Im up in the air about this as personally I have seen nothing from weeks except more shedding. I just rolled my like 6th roll last night and even though bleeding is easier I am just starting to think its not really going to do anything.

 

[2young2retire]

if bleeding is easier then this is proof sth is happening to the good. you obviously created a new blood network and circulation increased. no i believe to touch sculp you need 3mm plus. but whats the point in this over do? pass out ? lol. take it easy people.

swing give it much time. even if it improves 5% monthly it worths it. do the math.

 

[theRA]

lol. take it easy people.

lol didnt you mention like a week ago that you will try wounding with a surgical knife?

 

[opti]

Rolling hardly once a week isnt healthy,i d stop after 12weeks and see what happens the next 6 months

 

[peacemaker]

On the contrary, I am seeing improvements with scratching and massaging alone. Been doing that every morning & night. These are all explainable people. I'm tired of these speculations. In one thread, there are 3-4 people saying that this treatment is working for them. In another, it is the complete opposite. How far gone are you, in terms of your hair loss?

I wouldn't expect this treatment to work on NW4+. What you gain will be really minor. It means that whatever you get from the little growth signals you have due to rolling is completely obliterated by your high PGD2 levels. That's why it seems like it's not working for some people. If you are in this position, I don't think derma rolling is enough for you. If I were in your shoes, I would fight this on multiple fronts. For example, I would try the 15% minoxidil + DR + other growth boosters or 5AR blockers or whatever. Or I would wait until Histogen or other companies with more potent products.

 

[jasperhobbs]

With a lot of people rolling on this site, I would say by the end of 2014, we will know if Derma Rolling works or not. I joined this site couple of months ago and it seems the majority of rolling started within 6 months. Not long enough for true test.

Jasper Hobbs

 

[GoodToBeRich]

With a lot of people rolling on this site, I would say by the end of 2014, we will know if Derma Rolling works or not. I joined this site couple of months ago and it seems the majority of rolling started within 6 months. Not long enough for true test.

Jasper Hobbs

Totally agree. It seems like without Sqeegee, people are giving up left and right. I just think it's too soon to come to any major conclusions. I've been rolling since October, and have had a lot of regrowth. I unfortunately can't yet say that the rolling didn't just enhance the effects of finasteride/minoxidil that I started around the same time.

 

[CursedMen]

Would it be a bad thing if rolling worked by enhancing finasteride/Min? Fred if he did have a dermarolling clinic, after a couple of treatments most of the clients would realize that they could just do it at home.

 

[GoodToBeRich]

Would it be a bad thing if rolling worked by enhancing finasteride/Min? Fred if he did have a dermarolling clinic, after a couple of treatments most of the clients would realize that they could just do it at home.

I don't think it's a bad thing at all. I'm just used to my results getting criticized on here because of the addition of finasteride/Min, so I just put the disclaimer out there now.

 

[CursedMen]

I think your right. Everyone that had results was on something else.

 

[GoodToBeRich]

But even for those that are dermarolling alone, it is yet to be seen if they will see results down the road. I'm considering, as are some others, quitting rolling at 12 weeks, and giving it some time to possibly grow. Several have theorized that the photo results from the original Indian study were actually not from the 12-week point when they stopped dermarolling, but after some time of healing and growth.