Half of these Products are Killing our Follicles!

JamesVegas

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Alright, this needs to be said. Apologies to people that already know this. Half the sh*t in the products that you are buying (the consumer grade junk) is linked to HAIR LOSS, skin drying, and skin irritation.

Many of the consumer products are, unfortunately, geared towards people who don't have the time or means to become fully educated about the cheap, toxic crap they are putting on their scalps along with the small percentages of worthwhile chemicals.

One of the main causes for thinning hair, shedding, and hairloss is clogged scalps and toxified/poor scalp health. What do you think you are really doing to your scalp and hair follicles when you are drowning them in propylene glycol and alcohol every single day?

What do you expect to happen when you apply synthetic fragrances (dervided from toxic petroleum distallates,) coloring agents, thickeners, fillers, menthol and poly/methylparabens to your skin that are directly linked to skin irritation, skin drying and hair loss?

This stuff is all VERY, VERY toxic. They are included as cheap ways to make the product smell/look better to the uneducated and naive populus.

It is the product BASE that is the problem. Now, imagine if you were to apply just those ingredients -- a solution of just alcohol, syntheic coloring agents, petroleum distillates, and menthol to your scalp every day. You'd lose hair!

Rogaine is the biggest offender. Propylene glycol is a chemical that you DO NOT want on your scalp. The materials saftey data sheet for this chemical requires all workers to WEAR GLOVES AND MASKS when dealing with it. Rogaine is 50% percent PURE PROPLYENE GLYCOL. Yet, some of you are applying this to your scalps! [It should be advertised as "Propagaine: Propylene Glycol for men with added minoxidil."]

Companies make money by including chemicals that have grown hair in *clinical trials* using *clinical doses* of unadulterated/diluted/toxified versions of the chemical in question. It's very potent, it stinks, and it's not easy to apply. However, this is where the real results come from.

You, however, are buying a very small dose of that same chemical inside of a generic and unhealthy spritz, shampoo, or gel that has been very cheaply consumerified to make it smell nice, apply easily, dry fast, and not seperate in the bottle/tub.

RESPONSIBLE COMPANIES:

Dr. Lee understands that there are educated people buying his products. That's why he offers a propylene glycol free version of his minoxidil products. He propylene glycol is replaced with alcohol, which is not an ideal solution, but which is the only cheap and effective penatrating agent that will carry the minoxidil.


DS Laboratories includes within its Revita booklet the following information:
"Q: What is SLS/SLES free ?
A: SLS means Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and SLES means Sodium Laureth Sulfate, commonly used low cost detergents in shampoos and cleansers. They are linked to skin irritation, skin drying and hair loss due to follicle attack. Revita is Sodium Lauryl Sulfate and Sodium Laureth Sulfate free, and that means that Revita does not irritate you scalp and preserves your hair follicale health."


ADVICE:
Avoid putting the following on your scalp (in order of damage caused): SLS/SLES sodium lauryl sulfate, propylene glycol, menthol, synthetic fragrance, perfume, coloring, methylparaben, polyparaben.

This is NOT a comprehensive list, but just the most common junk components of a snake oil product.

Products can smell nice using essential oils, and can penetrate the scalp using natural penetrants. They can be maintined with natural preservatives and colored with natural substances (why the hell do you need a scalp product to be colored, anyway?) If a company is substituting these elements with dirt cheap cosmetic fillers to make more of a profit, AVOID THEM AT ALL COSTS. If a company produces a hair loss product with SLS, RUN FAR, FAR AWAY AND NEVER LOOK BACK. They use these chemicals to make a profit and they don't care because they aren't the morons slatering it on their scalps.

Trust me, the chemists that design these products with synthetic and toxic products would NEVER use them on their on scalp. I know this because I know a few.

I hope this leads a few of you in a more effective direction for a solution to your hair loss problems!

- James
 

jimmyjames

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As someone who may be allergic to some of the ingredients in these "commercial" products, I think your post is interesting. But my big question is: if stuff like Rogaine and other big name products shouldn't be used, what's left to actually fight hairloss? Anything?
 

Lorenzo_91

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What would you say about Tricomin which has menthol???
 

JamesVegas

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All of the cosmoceutical components are fine -- the minoxidil, ketoconazole, spironolactone, copper peptides, etc.

It's just that companies are adding these things to product bases that should not be used on balding scalps (or any scalps, for that matter.)

Revivogen is the closest thing I've seen to being junk-free. However, since it needs to smell good and "feel" good to make money, they added in some perfume and menthol. Ugh!

I think the best solution is to compound our own delivery systems for the beneficial cosmoceutical compounds, like some people do with spironolactone. What I reccomend is:

1.) KETO - Adding pure ketoconozole to a truly natural shampoo would be magnitudes better for our scalps than using Nizroral or any other SLS-based product current out there.

2.) minoxidil - Minoxidil is hard to dissolve, and it would take a chemist to find a less irritating (though more expensive) deliver agent. Alcohol is way better than proplyene glycol, though. So, stick to that.

3.) ORALS - Aside from overall internal endocrinological disruptions, these won't directly harm your scap. Use whatever you feel comfortable with.

4.) Anything from a company that agrees to eradicate the toxic junk from their products.

I still can't believe that hair loss shampoos exist that contain SLS. "Hair loss shampoo" is right -- because it causes it! It's almost a joke.
 

abcdefg

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James you have 3 posts. Why should I believe what your telling me? you want me to believe most products are junk and im left with what? the couple products you want me to buy?
 

Jojje

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i think this was good info, and abcdefg: you dont need many postings to know shitt,i knew allot about hairloss and treatments and shitt before i started posting... bacause i was her reading along time before making a user id :D
 

The Gardener

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No it's not. It's actually pretty poor information.

Propylene Glycol is not only safe for topical application, it has been proven safe as an EDIBLE COMPOUND. That's right, food makers put propylene glycol IN OUR FOODS as an emulsifier. You know those fat-free ice creams and cheeses? They are made with Propylene Glycol. Propylene Glycol is also a common compound in sexual lubricants. It is not only "tolerated" but it is actually completely NON-TOXIC.

As an example of how safe and benign this compound is, have any of you heard of the company "Tom's of Maine"? They are a firm that SPECIALIZES in creating personal toiletry and household products that are non-toxic and safe for the environment.

This firm uses Propylene Glycol as a base for their deodorant.

http://www.tomsofmaine.com/toms/ifs/pro ... glycol.asp

If Tom's of Maine is okay with Propylene Glycol, then I would find it very hard to make a case that it is toxic.
 

JamesVegas

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You don't have to believe me, "abcdegf." I don't want you to blindly accept what I'm telling you. I'm not spoon feeding people. In fact, I'm glad you challenged me.

My only goal here is to get people like you to go out and do some serious research about what EXACTLY you are applying to your skin and hair.

Do me a favor, and do a quick Google search for sodium lauryl sulfate (try multiple spellings) and hair loss. Do a little research about the toxicity of propylene glycol. Heck, take my reccomendations and throw them back in my face if you can find something wrong with them, too. If I'm wrong, I will be grateful that you've given me something to grow on.

If you do the research yourself, you will be surprised.
 

Follically Challenged

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JamesVegas said:
You don't have to believe me, "abcdegf." I don't want you to blindly accept what I'm telling you. I'm not spoon feeding people. In fact, I'm glad you challenged me.

My only goal here is to get people like you to go out and do some serious research about what EXACTLY you are applying to your skin and hair.

Do me a favor, and do a quick Google search for sodium lauryl sulfate (try multiple spellings) and hair loss. Do a little research about the toxicity of propylene glycol. Heck, take my reccomendations and throw them back in my face if you can find something wrong with them, too. If I'm wrong, I will be grateful that you've given me something to grow on.

If you do the research yourself, you will be surprised.

Can you provide us with some good scientific info that PPG is bad? I've seen the whole scare ya websites saying PPG is the devil, it's used in engine coolant, blah blah blah. But they were also selling glycerin based cosmetics.

It's easy to say something is bad, it's a lot harder to prove it. And since I don't know sh*t about science, I have no opinion one way or the other.
 

The Gardener

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Sodium Laurel Sulfate is a better point to make.

I have done LOTS research on PPG, and fact of the matter is that you could drink the stuff. The body metabolizes PPG and breaks it down into lactic acid, a very commonly and naturally occuring substance in human biology.

The point I was making about its ubiquitous use in foods is that if there were any harmful effects of PPG, they would have long shown themselves by now, as the substance is found and has been used in a wide range of human foods and cosmetics for quite a while.

Here is a summary... I've done a lot more research on PPG than this, but this wiki does a nice job of describing the basics of PPG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

As for engine coolants, it is used specifically as a non-toxic coolant and is marketed as being safer in case children or animals accidentally ingest it.

http://www.sierraantifreeze.com/

"SIERRA ANTIFREEZE - The SAFER Antifreeze

Because of it's PG formulation, SIERRA Antifreeze is less toxic than conventional EG based antifreeze and, therefore, is safer to pets, people and wildlife in cases of spills, leaks, boil-overs or careless disposal."
 

JamesVegas

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Gardener, I've read what they have to say and I agree that this is a topic of high debatability.

However, Tom's of Maine, on that very same page says that SLS is safe! Not only for topical use, but for eating!

Let's avoid getting all of our information from people who are trying to sell us things. The implicit bias is too great to ignore.

Even DS laboratories, the makers of a commerical hair loss shampoo, along with many other places, like Dr. Razack Tea Tree Oil shampoo, specifically express that studies (not MSDS sheets) have proven the chemical to attack hair follices. These are great examples of companies that could have elected to sell us the dirt cheap detergents, but decided to use more expensive and much safer alternatives.

There are many companies that will report to be environmentally conscious and "completely natural." Since that attitude is steadily becoming desired by consumers, many companies will falsely adopt it.

I do not trust most "Tom's of Maine" products for their inclusion of the top 3 hugely refuted cosmetic chemicals. By using these chemicals, they are effectively selling us regular cosmetics -- the exact same stuff you could buy in a generic bargain brand. By using the same chemicals other producs contain, what exactly are they offering us that is new and different? To say those products are "natural" ... is laughable. Tom's of Maine has "sold out," to say the least.

I'll read up on PPG in the meantime. Thank you for the link.

However, note that Dr. Lee himself offers a PPG free versions of his products, as do other laboratories, expressing that they (the hair loss experts) feel it is a very suspect chemical.
 

The Gardener

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Like I said, you might be right about SLS, and obviously any chemical is worthy of scrutiny. I don't know much about SLS.

However, I have done research on PPG, lots of it, and have posted in this thread some examples of it. I'd welcome some research to the contrary to discuss further...

Dr Lee has not expressed any doubts about the safety of PPG, and in fact most of his formulations do include PPG as a component.
 

Follically Challenged

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The Gardener said:
Sodium Laurel Sulfate is a better point to make.

I have done LOTS research on PPG, and fact of the matter is that you could drink the stuff. The body metabolizes PPG and breaks it down into lactic acid, a very commonly and naturally occuring substance in human biology.

The point I was making about its ubiquitous use in foods is that if there were any harmful effects of PPG, they would have long shown themselves by now, as the substance is found and has been used in a wide range of human foods and cosmetics for quite a while.

Here is a summary... I've done a lot more research on PPG than this, but this wiki does a nice job of describing the basics of PPG.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol

As for engine coolants, it is used specifically as a non-toxic coolant and is marketed as being safer in case children or animals accidentally ingest it.

http://www.sierraantifreeze.com/

"SIERRA ANTIFREEZE - The SAFER Antifreeze

Because of it's PG formulation, SIERRA Antifreeze is less toxic than conventional EG based antifreeze and, therefore, is safer to pets, people and wildlife in cases of spills, leaks, boil-overs or careless disposal."

Good post Gardener.
 

indie85

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Well i guess all the people reporting back success with rogaine foam must be lying? :roll:
 

Follically Challenged

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indie85 said:
Well i guess all the people reporting back success with rogaine foam must be lying? :roll:

Did you stop to think that it may take years for the damage (if indeed there is any) to become substantial?
 

jimmyjames

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I'm not taking sides here, but I just wanted to point out that Dr. Lee's PPG free formula was only made for those who are highly allergic to PPG (i.e. contact creates extreme skin irritation). For those without the allergy, he recommends taking the "normal" version with PPG.
 

Johnny24601

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re:

I read all these "claims" from forum members who I have no idea what their qualifications are and what their basis is for their conclusions.
Without published and approved scientific studies (New England Journal of Medicine or American Acedeamy of Dermatology for example) then how can anyone responsibly accept the claims made? With enough effort, I can find websites that make completely opposite claims even though they promote themselves as "experts" on a particular subject matter. One day red wine, coffee and chocolate is good for you the next day we are told that they are killing us. We should eat carbs, wait we should eat all protein. Without peer reviewed studies then I can only conclude that these are opinions and not fact. Perhaps these studies exist....I'd love to see them.
This does not take away from the fact that it is still healthy to debate these issues, perhaps with more debate we can come up with some real studies which will allow readers to come to a concise conclusion of their own. In the mean time, it should be made clear that what is being said is an opinion based on evidence that the individual has collected from outside sources and is not based on approved scientific study.
 

hairwegoagain

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Follicles are being "killed" because with male pattern baldness they are genetically programmed to drop their defenses against DHT. You can cut whatever you want out of your diet, living exclusively on grass clippings and triple-filtrated spring water....work out 10 hours per day....shower in emu oil... do the Hokey Pokey and hang upside down...whatever you fancy - but if you have male pattern baldness your follicles will still go south w/o medicinal intervention (and sometimes even then).
 
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