Good two month results with complex regimen (pics)

first

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I first started to lose hair around 16 or 17 but as my hair so thick to begin with when I was 18 my hair still looked great. This is the only picture I have from that time that actually showcases a larger part of the head.
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Two years later (as I turn 20), even though I try to cover it the hair loss is becoming apparent and I am starting to get some comments regarding it:
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I've known for quite some time I will be completely bald unless a miracle happens. My father is a NW7 and he lost hair in the same fashion as me when he was younger. My mother also has exceptionally thin hair for being female, so if anything my hair genes are likely even worse than my fathers, who lost pretty much all his top hair by the time he was 30.

Come 2008 and me being 25, I'm closing up on becoming a NW5, with extremely large temples:
iajgaaabi.jpg

As I keep my hair long, it is covering some of the thinning areas in the picture, so it may look better than it actually is, if I had it buzzed down you'd see next to no hair on top.

I did do a huge comb over (or comb forward rather) to make it less apparent but even the slighest breeze would completely blow my cower, leaving me exposed and sending a cold chill down my spine, even if no one was watching. I realized I couldn't live like this, so I decided upon either shaving it all off or trying to fix it the best I could with the current progress in medications.

As my head is very large, I like to say my brain is large but that is more likely wishful thinking, regardless, I would look extremely poor with a shaved head. So, I decided to at least give the medicine route half a year and then evaluate. I read up on all studies I could, trying to figure out what makes me bald and how to best counter it. There are quite a lot of stuff that has proven to have a good effect on hair or have a counter effect on the things that causes you to lose hair, so if I thought it would help my situation and it was cheap without too harsh side effects, I added it.

Fortunately, I did take pictures, unfortunately, I just have a webcam. They are all taken at the same time of the day and with the same lightning, yet as the computer is fairly close to a window the weather has quite a profound effect on the amount of light. Looking at the comparison pictures now, I realize the lightning is actually quite off due to the weather changes, which is unfortunate but at least the day 30 and day 59 pictures seems to have had the same weather. Also, I forgot to put on timestamps on the day 1 pictures, in case anyone is wondering.

The hair should be almost the exact same length at day 1 compared to day 59, yet it is shorter on day 30. If my hair looks darker, it definitely is, my hair has turned quite a bit darker with a more distinct color, the individual hairs also look much thicker.

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I should note that the temple areas had absolutely no hair when I started the treatment, I didn't even have the tiniest vellus or even languo hair. The temples were completely devoid of all human life. Watching other people who had success with hair regrowth, they all seemed to at least have some hair left in the areas with regrowth. So I had very little hope of my temples filling up but they do seem to be progressing. Unfortunately I have no day 1 picture as I didn't expect much in the temple department but as I saw regrowth around day 15 I took a picture then which you can compare with.

hajgcaabi.jpg


All in all, I am very happy with the progress. I am actually able to style my hair a bit now and can have haircuts which exposes my temples to a fairly large extent. Before, I never let anyone touch my hair but now I'm fine with my girlfriend rubbing my hair however she pleases, it feels like a burden has been removed from my life. I didn't think this kind of progress would even be possible in such a short timeframe, especially on completely dead temple areas. I've even gotten some positive comments in regards to my hair now from my friends so they seem to notice something has happened as well.

Regimen
When ever I start something, I always do as much research as possible beforehand, as I always want to be the best, the same thing goes with the hair loss, I did research and read as many reports as possible in regards to hair and what causes it and what works in terms of regrowing or keeping it. As I used these forums to a large extent in my research, I'll give back what I can in terms of sharing my progress and regimen.

I had four criterias when I chose my regimen.
-Beneficial
-Very cheap (as I am a student)
-Not have too harsh side effects, those I knew I wouldn't except were gyno, brain fog (have to stay sharp in school), ED, losing too much muscle mass.
-Not counter each other or have the same effect (unless the problem should be handled from more angles).

As long as research or strong indicators showed that something would fit in the above criterias, I tested it and added it if I did indeed fit after testing. Also, there are indicators that one of the main reasons for my hair loss is due to a lack of oxygen/NO on the scalp, hence I focused a bit on that. So, here is what I take:

Internally
Finasteride, 0.15mg per day - I believe everyone knows what this does so no need to comment on it. The low dosage is due to researching showing that an increased dose will not yield any beneficial results on scalp DHT, a high dose will also give me massive side effects. Hence a low dose is definitely the way to go for me, I do not understand why anyone utilize a higher dose unless they tested it consistently and know they are somehow different in composition compared to most.

Omega 3, every day - Not directly related to hair but does give overall health benefits. Indirectly related to hair by helping with the nitric oxide synthesis and TNF-a down regulation.

L-Arginine, every day - Helps blood flow and triggers the release of NO, a lack of NO is one of the culpits behind hairloss.

L-Lysine, every day - Basically same as above

Niacin, every day - Same as above

MSM, every day - One of the main components of hair and the third most common component in the human body. Studies has shown that MSM increases hair thickness and color. It also has numerous health benefits. It definitely seems to have had an effect on my hair as well as speeding up the results.

Tadalafil, every third day - Perhaps controversal but a very potent drug, commonly taken for something else yet it will increase the vascular size and hence help blood flow, oxygen, NO as well as removing harmful substances and old cells.

R-ALA (alpha-lipoic acid), every day - One of the strongest antioxidant, numerous overall health benefits and helps protect the liver (which is very much wanted, as it takes a hit from some of these drugs).

Tamoxifen, every day - Wish I didn't have to take it but I must in order to counter some of the side effects from the treatment. It has the added benefit of inhibiting super oxidation (to some degree).

Multi vitamin, every day - Taking one which is more complete than most. Overall health benefits.

Vitamin C, every day - I take a fairly large dose of extra vitamin c every day as well, in order to make MSM function properly.


Topical
minoxidil, twice per day - Everyone knows what this does.

Nizoral, every third day - See above.

Finasteride, twice daily - See finasteride. Topical finasteride has proven to be very efficient.

MSM, twice per day - See MSM

L-arginine, once per day - See L-arginine (I will likely stop using this as a topical, the absorbation seems to be too poor).

Green tea extract, once per day - TGF-B inhibitor and an anti-apoptotic, also TNF-a down regulation.

Caffeine, every day - Potent DHT inhibitor, prevents UVB skin tumors, inhibits EGF. May stimulate Caspase 3 however but the overall results should still be positive. Don't use this on areas where you use minoxidil.

I've not written out the dose for most of these as it will take a while to calculate it but if anyone is interested about any of them just ask. In terms of price and quality, everything that can be generic is generic. In the end, the minoxidil (kirkland) costs almost as much as everything else combined, so the overall cost is fairly low. If you order from various online sites, you can get away with a very low price. For example my finasteride cost is $0.39 per month.

While my treatment is quite heavy, it has also given good results. I am quite sure that anyone who did the exact same thing as me would see positive results as well, as it is very potent.
 

treeshrew

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amazing results!

thanks for sharing all this great information! i'm wondering if you might be able to provide the brandnames of the various supplements you're taking - the MSM, multi-vitamins, L-arginine, etc - these are the basic chemicals but I'm curious which actual products you use, as I'd be interested in picking some of this stuff up.

thanks again!
 

first

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treeshrew said:
amazing results!

thanks for sharing all this great information! i'm wondering if you might be able to provide the brandnames of the various supplements you're taking - the MSM, multi-vitamins, L-arginine, etc - these are the basic chemicals but I'm curious which actual products you use, as I'd be interested in picking some of this stuff up.
Thank you.

Both the MSM and the l-arginine are bought as bulk. Both are common substances so unless you get the wrong thing altogether, you can't really go wrong. The MSM is a 1kg bag just marked with MSM (Methyl Sulfonyl Methane), its a noname product, same thing with the l-arginine. Just get the cheapest you can, you can't go wrong. MSM is basically just organic sulfur, it is even found in rain, if you buy it in bulk, the price per day will be minimal.

The multi-vitamins on the other hand make a difference, at least in terms of content. The one I take is called "Only One" by Star Nutrition, it has the basic daily vitamins and minerals I need and is fairly cheap.
 

first

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Thickandthin said:
How do you get such a small dose (.15 mg)?

Great results though man!
Thank you!

Finasteride will not dissolve in water but it will completely dissolve in alcohol.

What I do is that I put two proscar (5mg) finasteride pills in a 50ml bottle and fill it up with alcohol (any booze will do) and then take 0.75ml of the solution per day.

To get a better idea, here is a picture of the kind of bottle I use (with a dipper). The markings on the dipper are for 0.25, 0.5, 0.75 and 1ml respectively. As you can imagine, taking 0.75 or 1ml out for that matter is a piece of cake and will give me the low dose that I want.
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Thickandthin

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Aha!

I have heard of this being done before and was very interested in trying it out for myself. Very little mention of it on this forum though so I wasn't sure if anyone else was trying it.

Only thing that worries me is whether or not the finasteride remains viable in an alcohol solution? I understand it dissolves nicely in there - but that does that mean the active ingredient is still, well, active? I'm not too familiar with chemistry so I'm not sure how that works exactly.

But in any case, I think you are onto something big here because as you have said, the studies show that the ultra low doses lower scalp DHT the same as 1 mg+ but without lowering serum DHT to the same extent - which is exactly what we all want! Bravo man - off to the liquor store to buy some cheap booze! :)
 

first

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Thickandthin said:
Only thing that worries me is whether or not the finasteride remains viable in an alcohol solution? I understand it dissolves nicely in there - but that does that mean the active ingredient is still, well, active? I'm not too familiar with chemistry so I'm not sure how that works exactly.
There are basically two options on order to get a low enough dose. One is to make it a powder and the other is to dissolve it. As a powder, it will go bad fairly swiftly. The alcohol will actually work in an opposite fashion, it will protect and preserve the finasteride. Alcohol is a fairly common ingredient in medicine exactly due to the fact that it will prolong the medicines lifetime.
 

dotsona

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I just started taking Propecia, and I was thinking about lowering the dosage (due to some minor sexual side effects), I was wondering if it was possible to just chop it in half, rather than converting it to a powder? Is there an advantage to doing it the way that you mentioned. Or could I just chop it in half or 3rds to get the desired amount?

Thanks,
Andrew
 

first

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dotsona said:
I just started taking Propecia, and I was thinking about lowering the dosage (due to some minor sexual side effects), I was wondering if it was possible to just chop it in half, rather than converting it to a powder? Is there an advantage to doing it the way that you mentioned. Or could I just chop it in half or 3rds to get the desired amount?

Thanks,
Andrew
The advantage is that it is much easier to get a low enough dosage. Cutting a propecia pill in half will result in a 0.5mg dose, to achieve the desired 0.15mg you'd have to cut it into around eight pieces. Cutting it so many times is pretty much impossible, even with a pill cutter.

However, if you can do it, cutting it into eight pieces, then the end result is the same, aye. Just make sure the left overs are in a dry and dark place.
 

JDW

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Great results thus far, waht a regime!!!
Just one question, when did shedding decrease or do you still shed?

I have noticed that those who maintain a strongish frontal 'island' seem to have best chance of success and get best regrowth
 

first

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JDW said:
Great results thus far, waht a regime!!!
Just one question, when did shedding decrease or do you still shed?

I have noticed that those who maintain a strongish frontal 'island' seem to have best chance of success and get best regrowth
Thank you!

It is funny that you ask because I've noticed quite a change. Before I started I used to pick up this ball of hair from the shower floor a couple of times per week but ever since the day I started the regime, I've not had to pick up any hair at all, not even once during these two months!

I am sure I still shed some hairs but it is such a minimal amount that they just go down with the water and never gets the time to build up. If I run my hand throught my hair I get the occasional hair that drops but it is never more than one or two.
 

JDW

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that'scrazy that it worked from day one.
You've inspired me to try and tackle things from other perspectives...
I've always had bad circulation, hands and feet often freezing and purple...do you think this could play a part in my loss as I'm on /5mg dutasteride without success...
Perhaps something to increase blood flow circulation such as L-argine would help?
 

JayB

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"Tamoxifen is an orally active selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that is used in the treatment of breast cancer and is currently the world's largest selling drug for that purpose."

how come you're using this daily?


In regards to the topicals you use- i find this is the hardest part of any regimen. especially being that like me, youre a student. Are you combining all your topicals into one, or are you putting them all on top of your head at diff times throughout the day. because some of those topicals really leave your hair looking like crap and if you dont wear a hat, i cant imagine sitting in class and interacting with people in the state that the topicals leave your hair looking.
 

first

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JayB said:
"Tamoxifen is an orally active selective estrogen receptor modulator (SERM) that is used in the treatment of breast cancer and is currently the world's largest selling drug for that purpose."

how come you're using this daily?


In regards to the topicals you use- i find this is the hardest part of any regimen. especially being that like me, youre a student. Are you combining all your topicals into one, or are you putting them all on top of your head at diff times throughout the day. because some of those topicals really leave your hair looking like crap and if you dont wear a hat, i cant imagine sitting in class and interacting with people in the state that the topicals leave your hair looking.
The treatment gives me some heafy estrogen side effects, such as gyno. Hence I take Tamoxifen in order to counter it (it binds up all the estrogen). It is not something I would recommend permanently but I take it during the regrowth phase. Otherwise I would have to stop using the green tea and caffeine topical.

I have basically divided the topicals into two parts, those that makes my hair look crap and those that doesn't. Those that makes it look like crap I put on an hour before I go to bed while I put on the other parts in the morning. Even though you shouldn't, I often use a blow dryer in the morning.
 

first

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JDW said:
that'scrazy that it worked from day one.
You've inspired me to try and tackle things from other perspectives...
I've always had bad circulation, hands and feet often freezing and purple...do you think this could play a part in my loss as I'm on /5mg dutasteride without success...
Perhaps something to increase blood flow circulation such as L-argine would help?
It could definitely play a part. Hair needs a healthy stream of blood, oxygen and NO in order to function properly.

L-arginine also has several overall health benefits, so you should consider giving it a try. Make sure you take it on an empty stomach (as soon as you wake up), otherwise it may bind up with other proteins.
 

dotsona

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I have another quick question, could you please refer me to the study that shows a lower dosage of propecia is just as effective as 1mg? Thanks :D
 

NicholasLim

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Hi , do you think green tea extract and MSM helped a lot in your regrowth ? i am on finasteride and nizoral but is thinking of adding more to my regimen , what do you recon ? i dont want to get on rogaine just yet ! thx
 

tiger81

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(Part 1)
I’m also thinking about taking lower dosage of proscar using your method. Out of curiosity, I tested if proscar does dissolve better in alcohol compare to just water. And from what I can see, proscar dissolved better in water.
I basically cut one proscar pill(5mg) in half and put one half in a cut of water and the other half in a cut of vadka and stir it. The result was almost the same, but water did better job dissolving proscar.
So does it matter if I dissolve it in water and take it? Or does alcohol help preserve it longer?

(Part 2)
You wrote that you use a 50ml bottle and take 0.75ml per day. Does that mean one bottle(50ml) of the solution will last you 66.6 days? is it necessary to have it bottled that long? Maybe just put in one pill(5mg) and take it for 33.3 days?

And do you just drop the solution in your mouth straight from the dipper or maybe mix it into a cut of water or something and drink it? 0.75ml seems like an insignificant amount to take.

I would appreciated it if you can help with the questions.

Thanx!
 

first

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NicholasLim said:
Hi , do you think green tea extract and MSM helped a lot in your regrowth ? i am on finasteride and nizoral but is thinking of adding more to my regimen , what do you recon ? i dont want to get on rogaine just yet ! thx
Personally I do not see the big three as enough. Sure, they help countering two of the culpits behind hair loss (inflammation and DHT) but there are plenty of other culpits to consider. In order to have maximum success, one should try to counter as many of the factors behind hair loss as possible.

Other than DHT and inflammation, in my opinion, everyone should also look for something to counter SOD, TGF-b, EGF and fibrosis as well as improving the release of NO. If you have a treatment with these in mind, there are very few things left that will cause you to lose your hair. For example, studies indicate that fibrosis is a factor in all hair loss, regardless if it is due to genetics, hormones or stress. So unless you suffer sides, why disregard a treatment against it?

In terms of green tea extract, it definitely helps, as it inhibits TGF-b and DHT. Most extracts also contains caffeine which helps haltering some of the culpits as well. So unless you are certain those are not factors behind your hair loss, I would recommend anyone to try green tea extract. One thing should be noted though, a green tea/caffeine combo is quite potent at inhibiting DHT which may give you finasteride-like side effects, depending on dosage.

When it comes to MSM, it will likely not regrow individual hairs. What it will do is make existing hair thicker and may help make vellus hair look (and perhaps become) terminal, hence it has a positive effect on the hair that is regrown.
 
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