Follica Microneedling Protocol Patent Disclosed

clarence-forgotpassword

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Follica have research showing neogenesis from wounding and other research on humans showing increased hair density after wounding.
Rassman have not researched this and have not given any reasons to doubt Follica at least in public. Believe what you want.

For the record, Rassmann is a staunch advocate of microneedling.

@trialAcc: Rassmann didn't mean that they're programmed to minituarize in their location, although this can be easily inferred from his comment, but that the hair brough back will subsist only as long as you keep treating it.
 

trialAcc

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For the record, Rassmann is a staunch advocate of microneedling.

@trialAcc: Rassmann didn't mean that they're programmed to minituarize in their location, although this can be easily inferred from his comment, but that the hair brough back will subsist only as long as you keep treating it.
I don't think there is any other way to infer that though, because beard gains from rolling are permanent (or at least linger for a long time after treatment). This doesn't occur in the scalp.
 

clarence-forgotpassword

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So you says that "Follica says their treatment creates new hairs, but I don't buy it. Microneedling does not create new hairs, and you'd have to continuously repeat the treatment, at least according to what" because someone has said that?!

So, if Dr. Rassman says "They are aliens on the moon", you will say "there are aliens on the moon"?

It is not a very scientific process.

I am not Dr. Rassman, but he's knowledgeable and has 40 years of experience in the field and he has been heavily criticized for discrediting many treatments which have been debunked by recent studies, such as PRP (Ten years ago Cooley and Hitzig said "he should retire"), Acell (a treatment from which nothing has yet come out although Dr. Cole is running studies on it), Dr. Gho (see flame wars on forums), Pilofocus, laser, scalp massage, nofap and Nizoral shampoo.
 

clarence-forgotpassword

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It's not a good argument. Raoult in France is a very popular scientist but his chloroquine doesn't work against COVID, most of most of his predictions turned out to be false and his last studies have a very bad methodology.

Only well-conducted scientific studies can prove anything.

That's why I'm saying someone should ask him. I would, but I don't know too much about microneedling, apart from the Follica studies which I've glossed over.
 

Ralph Wiggum

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This is what Dr. Rassman said on his blog. I don't think there's a specific study but obviously he has many years of expertise to base his conclusions on.


Generally, the dermaroller (the microneedling device) induces Anagen, a single hair cycle and it should be sustained for the duration of the growth cycle. After the hair goes into telogen (about 2-3 years for men and 3-5 years for women), the pre-treatment state should return so you would have to go through the entire dermroller treatment all over again. Microneedling induces wound healing and the release of inflammatory molecules that can stimulate hair growth bringing hairs that have stem cell present back to functioning and into the anagen growth cycle.
 

clarence-forgotpassword

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This is what Dr. Rassman said on his blog. I don't think there's a specific study but obviously he has many years of expertise to base his conclusions on.


Generally, the dermaroller (the microneedling device) induces Anagen, a single hair cycle and it should be sustained for the duration of the growth cycle. After the hair goes into telogen (about 2-3 years for men and 3-5 years for women), the pre-treatment state should return so you would have to go through the entire dermroller treatment all over again. Microneedling induces wound healing and the release of inflammatory molecules that can stimulate hair growth bringing hairs that have stem cell present back to functioning and into the anagen growth cycle.

That's contradictory to what he wrote in the recent entry he posted. (Maybe it was just lazily written.) But he doesn't have anything to say about neogenesis, maybe because he hasn't done studies like Follica have.
 

glammetal

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Does anybody know if the treatment of Follica would enrich the donor area and the recipoent area after a hair transplant??
 

KNemo

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Does anybody know if the treatment of Follica would enrich the donor area and the recipoent area after a hair transplant??
AFAIK there haven't been any studies about this however if it truly generates new hair follicles it should. It's possible fibrosis could reduce the effects but even then microneedling reduces fibrosis...
 

Chromeo

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It seems than microneedling doesn't remain when we stop it. What do you think about?



https://www.reddit.com/r/HairlossProgressPics/comments/kgvxvb
He stopped all of his regime (finasteride, minoxidil, dermarolling) so of course all gains will be lost. For a start, any hairs regrown on the top of the head by dermarolling are still susceptible to the negative effects of DHT, so without finasteride they will miniaturise the same way they did before. They are not DHT-resistant hairs like those from the donor area.
 

clarence-forgotpassword

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He stopped all of his regime (finasteride, minoxidil, dermarolling) so of course all gains will be lost. For a start, any hairs regrown on the top of the head by dermarolling are still susceptible to the negative effects of DHT, so without finasteride they will miniaturise the same way they did before. They are not DHT-resistant hairs like those from the donor area.

Lol, that's saying nothing whether it will take a few months after stopping, or if it will take 20-30 years like his original hair.
 

glammetal

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AFAIK there haven't been any studies about this however if it truly generates new hair follicles it should. It's possible fibrosis could reduce the effects but even then microneedling reduces fibrosis...
Damn that follica finished phase 2 in December 2019.They take this thing too damn slow
 

Chromeo

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Lol, that's saying nothing whether it will take a few months after stopping, or if it will take 20-30 years like his original hair.
It's pretty clear from his documentation that they are lost quickly. He's been off his regime for 4 months and he appears to have lost a considerable amount of ground already.
 

BalderBaldyBald

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For the record, Dr. Cotsarelis mentioned at a Follica conf years ago that its not a silver bullet treatment, Finasteride will still be required to maintain and avoid DHT damage

Another curious fact, let's say you've been 20 years on Finasteride and have been capable of maintaining a NW2-3 pattern, avoiding a complete horseshoe NW7 pattern this long time.
If you stop Finasteride, you'll be back at your "pre-programmed" final pattern (NW7 for heavy balders) in a matter of months, the kickback is hard and fast
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Good point. We might be able to maintain microneedling using duta/finasteride or other prostate medications. What might happen also is that many/most derma-rollers are operating in an environment of higher levels of DHT as a baseline and so then, when one stops, it's like whoosh in comes the DHT and I think I have seen people noting complete fall-out after desisting from microneedling for 30 to 180 days.
He stopped all of his regime (finasteride, minoxidil, dermarolling) so of course all gains will be lost. For a start, any hairs regrown on the top of the head by dermarolling are still susceptible to the negative effects of DHT, so without finasteride they will miniaturise the same way they did before. They are not DHT-resistant hairs like those from the donor area.
 

pegasus2

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I think Twist1 is constitutively active in bald scalp and this acts as a brake on Wnt signaling and the growth phase of the hair follicle. Microneedling increases Wnt ligands while minoxidil inhibits GSK3b(Wnt inhibitor) and this counteracts Twist1's suppression of Wnt signaling, but Twist1 is still there, and when you remove microneedling and minoxidil the balding process happens again swiftly due to the constitutively nuclear Twist1 combined with your cells already having reached an age where they are more easily stressed. It's similar to how when older eunuchs are given testosterone their hair falls out more quickly than younger eunuchs, only this is much worse because you already have high Twist1 expression. I believe PRLR antagonism reverses the cause of constitutive Twist1, and that's why results from HMI-115 last much longer after discontinuing treatment than the results from minoxidil and microneedling.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Good point. We might be able to maintain microneedling using duta/finasteride or other prostate medications. What might happen also is that many/most derma-rollers are operating in an environment of higher levels of DHT as a baseline and so then, when one stops, it's like whoosh in comes the DHT and I think I have seen people noting complete fall-out after desisting from microneedling for 30 to 180 days.
But much longer anagen might trump the importance of DHT somewhat and a lot of the analysis ends up being circular in terms of cause and effect and which is which.
 
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