EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

JaneyElizabeth

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Finasteride should clear your system after a few weeks and DHT levels should return to normal. But I’m not saying there aren’t people here who have had persistent sides after stopping the medication. Everyone reacts to drugs differently.
Janey likes men who know whereof they speak. Everything nw7 says is pretty much on target and like Gekko, norwoody speaks to everybody meaning, you know a guy who neither forget us nor ghost us Janely says MtF's I love you but like no dead name but the same meds which is not straightforward, true says Janey.
 

Pigeon

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New study:


Paternal Finasteride Treatment Can Influence the Testicular Transcriptome Profile of Male Offspring-Preliminary Study​


Abstract​


(1) Background: Hormone-dependent events that occur throughout spermatogenesis during postnatal testis maturation are significant for adult male fertility. Any disturbances in the T/DHT ratio in male progeny born from females fertilized by finasteride-treated male rats (F0:finasteride) can result in the impairment of testicular physiology. The goal of this work was to profile the testicular transcriptome in the male filial generation (F1:finasteride) from paternal F0:finasteride rats. (2) Methods: The subject material for the study were testis from immature and mature male rats born from females fertilized by finasteride-treated rats. Testicular tissues from the offspring were used in microarray analyses. (3) Results: The top 10 genes having the highest and lowest fold change values were mainly those that encoded odoriferous (Olfr: 31, 331, 365, 633, 774, 814, 890, 935, 1109, 1112, 1173, 1251, 1259, 1253, 1383) and vomeronasal (Vmn1r: 50, 103, 210, 211; Vmn2r: 3, 23, 99) receptors and RIKEN cDNA 5430402E10, also known as odorant-binding protein. (4) Conclusions: Finasteride treatment of male adult rats may cause changes in the testicular transcriptome of their male offspring, leading to a defective function of spermatozoa in response to odorant-like signals, which are recently more and more often noticed as significant players in male fertility.


Inb4; "but it's a rat study bro so it don't count" cope.
 

user394587

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New study:


Paternal Finasteride Treatment Can Influence the Testicular Transcriptome Profile of Male Offspring-Preliminary Study​


Abstract​


(1) Background: Hormone-dependent events that occur throughout spermatogenesis during postnatal testis maturation are significant for adult male fertility. Any disturbances in the T/DHT ratio in male progeny born from females fertilized by finasteride-treated male rats (F0:finasteride) can result in the impairment of testicular physiology. The goal of this work was to profile the testicular transcriptome in the male filial generation (F1:finasteride) from paternal F0:finasteride rats. (2) Methods: The subject material for the study were testis from immature and mature male rats born from females fertilized by finasteride-treated rats. Testicular tissues from the offspring were used in microarray analyses. (3) Results: The top 10 genes having the highest and lowest fold change values were mainly those that encoded odoriferous (Olfr: 31, 331, 365, 633, 774, 814, 890, 935, 1109, 1112, 1173, 1251, 1259, 1253, 1383) and vomeronasal (Vmn1r: 50, 103, 210, 211; Vmn2r: 3, 23, 99) receptors and RIKEN cDNA 5430402E10, also known as odorant-binding protein. (4) Conclusions: Finasteride treatment of male adult rats may cause changes in the testicular transcriptome of their male offspring, leading to a defective function of spermatozoa in response to odorant-like signals, which are recently more and more often noticed as significant players in male fertility.


Inb4; "but it's a rat study bro so it don't count" cope.
It would have been nice if they attempted to examine the effect of dose titration here as opposed to administering 5mg/kg of finasteride per day. They also, unless I'm misinterpreting something, didn't take the rats off of finasteride for a given period before mating began.

If they performed the above steps in their study, it might be useful because it could inform finasteride users of whether or not said change is:

1. Dose dependent
2. Persistent after discontinuing the medication for "x" amount of time
 

Pigeon

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It would have been nice if they attempted to examine the effect of dose titration here as opposed to administering 5mg/kg of finasteride per day. They also, unless I'm misinterpreting something, didn't take the rats off of finasteride for a given period before mating began.

If they performed the above steps in their study, it might be useful because it could inform finasteride users of whether or not said change is:

1. Dose dependent
2. Persistent after discontinuing the medication for "x" amount of time
Yes that's a good question for the researchers why they gave 5mg/kg fina/day.

But if we look at DHT impact, even small amounts give the same effect as high dosages:

0rsWQDEBHj6sFpxD2JiNK4LNhqafpITviBIX4X8mjpY.jpg
 

user394587

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Yes that's a good question for the researchers why they gave 5mg/kg fina/day.

But if we look at DHT impact, even small amounts give the same effect as high dosages:

0rsWQDEBHj6sFpxD2JiNK4LNhqafpITviBIX4X8mjpY.jpg
This is serum DHT inhibition, it's only modestly correlated with what's happening in the tissue, which is where the majority of DHT is produced. Serum DHT is a small fraction of the total DHT within the body. If you look at the studies regarding the concentration of finasteride in semen, the maximum seen is in those taking proscar (5 mg) and it amounts to 21 ng/mL (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2164/jandrol.109.009381). Even if you quadrupled the amount of semen required for something like hyperspermia, the total amount of finasteride in the semen would still be negligible.

Anyways, that's besides the point. With the extreme dosage that was administered to the rats in this study it's impossible to tell whether or not the same experimental outcome would be observed if realistic dosages were used. An equivalent dose in a human male having a mass as low as 45kg would still be 225 mg of finasteride per day. At dosages that high, how can you be sure that you're not achieving high levels of saturation and increasing the concentration of finasteride in the seminal fluid to the point where it would be high enough to observe the effect reported in the study?

If they designed their study in a way where you had three groups of rats in which the following conditions were met:

Group 1. Rats administered the "rat equivalent" of 5 mg of finasteride per day by mass, this would be somewhere around 0.025 mg depending on the species.
Group 2. Rats administered the above amount of finasteride per day, then taken off the drug for a period of 1-2 months.
Group 3. Placebo group

You could also add additional groups that take the rats off the drug for a variable amount of time to get an estimate of the required time off the medication to eliminate finasteride in the semen.

Then you would be able to answer:

1. Do realistic dosages of finasteride cause said defects in the offspring of rats treated with finasteride?
2. Is the effect permanent, or is it only during treatment?

Unfortunately, the design wasn't set up in that way, so this study doesn't tell finasteride users much.
 
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Pigeon

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This is serum DHT inhibition, it's only modestly correlated with what's happening in the tissue, which is where the majority of DHT is produced. Serum DHT is a small fraction of the total DHT within the body. If you look at the studies regarding the concentration of finasteride in semen, the maximum seen is in those taking proscar (5 mg) and it amounts to 21 ng/mL (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.2164/jandrol.109.009381). Even if you quadrupled the amount of semen required for something like hyperspermia, the total amount of finasteride in the semen would still be negligible.

Anyways, that's besides the point. With the extreme dosage that was administered to the rats in this study it's impossible to tell whether or not the same experimental outcome would be observed if realistic dosages were used. An equivalent dose in a human male having a mass as low as 45kg would still be 225 mg of finasteride per day. At dosages that high, how can you be sure that you're not achieving high levels of saturation and increasing the concentration of finasteride in the seminal fluid to the point where it would be high enough to observe the effect reported in the study?

If they designed their study in a way where you had three groups of rats in which the following conditions were met:

Group 1. Rats administered the "rat equivalent" of 5 mg of finasteride per day by mass, this would be somewhere around 0.025 mg depending on the species.
Group 2. Rats administered the above amount of finasteride per day, then taken off the drug for a period of 1-2 months.
Group 3. Placebo group

You could also add additional groups that take the rats off the drug for a variable amount of time to get an estimate of the required time off the medication to eliminate finasteride in the semen.

Then you would be able to answer:

1. Do realistic dosages of finasteride cause said defects in the offspring of rats treated with finasteride?
2. Is the effect permanent, or is it only during treatment?

Unfortunately, the design wasn't set up in that way, so this study doesn't tell finasteride users much.
The researchers aren't dumb so there has to be a reason why they gave the rats so much for their experiment. Maybe I'll try to contact them and ask why. But I agree with your points.
 
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Been on and off finasteride since 19 (over 40yo now). Mild side effects I had always went away in a week or two after stopping. And that's after YEARS of taking it continuously. Do I like taking this crap? F no! Do I think PFS is complete horseshit? Absolutely!
 

N003

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Been on finasteride for 4 years.

At the beginning I took it daily and since half a year I take it 3 times a week.

Side effects:
Immediately after starting therapy extremely watery ejaculation.

After that my ejaculation has decreased by 80-90%.
Only one drop comes out.
This side effect has remained until today.
 

user394587

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FDA Sued Over Inaction on Dangerous Hair Loss Medication Propecia​

I'm all for sharing information about potentially harmful effects, but pulling this off the market is overkill. People should make informed choices based on the risk data presented to them and their own research.

Imagine all the people who have no side effects from finasteride and have had hair transplants. Medication gets ripped out from under them and then they bald around their transplanted hair. Sounds like a great idea to me.
 

Pigeon

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I'm all for sharing information about potentially harmful effects, but pulling this off the market is overkill. People should make informed choices based on the risk data presented to them and their own research.

Imagine all the people who have no side effects from finasteride and have had hair transplants. Medication gets ripped out from under them and then they bald around their transplanted hair. Sounds like a great idea to me.
I've never been a fan of banning drugs, there should be more awareness of the dangers and what finasteride actually does. And banning won't solve anything, people will still be able to get finasteride via other routes.

Reuters also reporting it:

 
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Pigeon

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Does treatment with dutasteride or finasteride has impact on renal morphology? Experimental study​


Abstract​


Purpose: To investigate whether renal modifications occur following treatment with dutasteride or finasteride.

Methods: Twenty-four male rats were divided into three groups: control (that received distilled water), dutasteride (0.5 mg/kg/day), and finasteride (5 mg/kg/day) groups. All administrations were given by gavage for 40 consecutive days. After inducing euthanasia, blood was collected for urea and creatinine analyses, and both the kidneys were collected for stereological analyses of kidney morphology.

Results: Serum urea and creatinine levels were increased in both the finasteride and the dutasteride groups compared with those in the control group. In addition, kidney weight, kidney volume, cortical volume, glomerular volumetric density, and mean glomerular volume were reduced in both treatment groups. Finally, the number of glomeruli per kidney was reduced by 26.8% in the finasteride group and by 51.6% in the dutasteride group compared with that in the control group.

Conclusions: The 5-ARIs finasteride and dutasteride promoted morphological and functional damages in rat kidneys. In addition, rats in the dutasteride group showed more severe renal modifications than those in the finasteride group.

 

Mustang

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Been on finasteride for 4 years.

At the beginning I took it daily and since half a year I take it 3 times a week.

Side effects:
Immediately after starting therapy extremely watery ejaculation.

After that my ejaculation has decreased by 80-90%.
Only one drop comes out.
This side effect has remained until today.

You should seriously consider switching to Topical Dutasteride and see if the sides go away
 

Jacoby77

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When you're blocking the most potent androgenic hormone and are disturbing numerous neurosteroidal processes for years... it's definitely not nocebo if you experience side effects.
Do you think finasteride is stupid to take, or everyone is different etc? I'm not taking it due to the gynecomastia and I cannot afford surgery so will be bald soon, as photos don't show how bad my hair really is.
 

Descending Dog

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When you're blocking the most potent androgenic hormone and are disturbing numerous neurosteroidal processes for years... it's definitely not nocebo if you experience side effects.
Partially blocking sounds more accurate. No high dose of Dutasteride can completely inhibit the conversion, for example there is at least a remaining 20-25 % on the scalp.

Unfortunately there is no useful data in brain functions which I guess could be one of the potential differences between people who can or cannot handle the drug leaving aside nocebo.
 
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Micky_007

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Been on finasteride for 4 years.

At the beginning I took it daily and since half a year I take it 3 times a week.

Side effects:
Immediately after starting therapy extremely watery ejaculation.

After that my ejaculation has decreased by 80-90%.
Only one drop comes out.
This side effect has remained until today.

Exactly, this is really common! And people think it's okay for stuff like this to be FDA approved. And Pro-Finasteride people expecting the many people who have had similar side effects to stay quiet after what they went through is ridiculous.
 

Micky_007

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Partially blocking sounds more accurate. No high dose of Dutasteride can completely inhibit the conversion, for example there is at least a remaining 20-25 % on the scalp.

Unfortunately there is no useful data in brain functions which I guess could be one of the potential differences between people who can or cannot handle the drug leaving aside nocebo.

It's blocking 3/4 of the DHT, that's obviously a majority amount of the 2nd most important hormone in males and not expecting a large % of people not to be getting sides is absurd.
 
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