EVERYONE Will Get Finasteride Side-Effects Eventually

Manochoice

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Time to end this discussion forever. Would you rather risk side effects that are apparently going to happen at some point or go bald and suffer the worst side effect of being unattractive and not being able to get anywhere in life.

I'll lose my dick so I can get respect from peers.
You are mad to believe peers will respect you more for your hair than for your dick
 

Manochoice

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Your peers shouldnt be aware of your dick. Only whoever you have sex with. AND all these claims about having to choose between hair and dick are just ridiculous as such a choice has never been needed to be taken
Everyone is free to choose their own path.
 

hemingway_the_mercenary

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Time to end this discussion forever. Would you rather risk side effects that are apparently going to happen at some point or go bald and suffer the worst side effect of being unattractive and not being able to get anywhere in life.

I'll lose my dick so I can get respect from peers.
Did you even read the op you lazy Incel? I listed a number of alternative ways you could continue to use finasteride while lowering chances of side effects down the line.
 

Diffused_confidence

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Let's look at all the alternatives here.

Topical finasteride - based on small studies it still goes systemic and drops serum dht levels at the same level as oral.
Breezula - experimental drug that seems ineffective after a year.
Ru58841 - can also lead to the same side effects, anecdotal evidence of heart problems.

That's it. They are all trash. If there was a real alternative to oral finasteride then everyone would use it.

Most people never get side effects. The entire first page is conjecture backed up by small data research. These studies don't seem to factor things like aging, diet, and depression.
 

20YearsOnFin

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Few people think it's a good idea. They are simply addicted to it so they're hooked
How can they be addicted before they make the choice to start? The comparison with smoking is valid, the risks and drawbacks are well known but the up take is still there.
 
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Stating facts

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I have always had a thought that wouldn't it be great to perform a set of our own experiment? Since we are a ton of logical people here, arguing strongly on both sides of the drug, maybe we can start comparing and posting our blood tests here every six months or year with our age, years on/off finasteride and any other medical impediments and habits like alcohol / cigarettes consumption.
Apart from sexual sides, since I was also facing higher liver enzyme issue, I am also interested in that number as to how people who say they have no sexual sides perform on this parameter, but ofcourse we can compare other parameters as well.
 

Manochoice

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How can they be addicted before they make the choice to start? The comparison with smoking is valid, the risks and drawbacks are well known but the up take is still there.
Who in this world started smoking thinking to themselves: oh, smoking! Such a wonderful idea! Lemme jump on it! ???
 

20YearsOnFin

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Who in this world started smoking thinking to themselves: oh, smoking! Such a wonderful idea! Lemme jump on it! ???
Probably every single group of cool teen's from 12 year old's and up, which is the age they tend to start in the UK
 
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Micky_007

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Your peers shouldnt be aware of your dick. Only whoever you have sex with. AND all these claims about having to choose between hair and dick are just ridiculous as such a choice has never been needed to be taken
Actually its not ridiculous, many people have to choose between hair and dick when using Finasteride.

Also, you're forgetting when Finasteride does effect people's dick/sexual functions, it doesn't just end there, as it is a change in the endocrine system which results in those side effects in the first place.

An unbalanced endocrine system will result in a ripple effect of other problems. It's no suprise many finasteride users end up with mental sides as well.

So finasteride can very well affect users which can in turn affect their relationships with their peers.
 
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Micky_007

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I will admit that my position may come from the fact that I experience zero negative side effects with my using avodart.

It's arguable how much of said side effects are real though as there are studies showing that placebo has comparable side effects to finasteride users... but well, I believe it's the best in everyone's interest to try to cooperate so they can keep using Finasteride, even if that means moderate use of sexual perfomance enhancing drugs.
Honestly side effects are exaggerated, and I myself was a victim of this. It's up to everyone though, for sure I refuse to lose my hair and I am willing to go as far as needed as long as I can afford it. Being bald would be 1000 times worse than any side effect finasteride could possibly bring, in fact I used to be suicidal before realizing I could stabilize this condition.

I understand your view since you have had been one of the fortunate ones not to experience sides, although it was using Avodart, but many people have experienced sides using Finasteride/Propecia.

There are loads of studies that also prove that there are far more people that have Finasteride side effects and it isn't in people's heads, that's just ludicrous. I personally experienced sides so I know it's not in my head, especially since I've done testing before and after.

Also, Pigeon alone has posted a plethora of studies showing how much more Finasteride affects people negatively with side effects than the water-downed secretly funded by Big Pharma studies that try to make Finasteride look good.

The contrast is far too great and it becomes undeniable with a large amount of people on this very forum alone talk about Finasteride sides and how real it is.

Pigeon even posted screenshots of verified Twitter accounts who are Medical Doctors speaking to other doctors on Twitter discussing the bad side effects of Finasteride and how common it actually is. There's a LOT of people speaking out nowadays.

For such reasons I don't believe any of the numbers published by the FDA and Merck and Pro-Finasteride studies/sources to be true. If Finasteride was even remotely as good as they claim, they'd be a majority of the male population with good heads of hair and that is obviously the furthest thing from the truth.

So no I do not believe Finasteride is the best treatment we have. People may even get better results with Microneedling and Minoxidil twice a day

And soon Kintor Pharmaceuticals will make Finasteride look useless
 
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Micky_007

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I see. I did not want to suggest that the nature of all side effects are in people's head, but it could be definitely playing a role. Giving a choice between "hair or dick" scaring people away leading them to have your (not referring to you, but generalised) own current position of not taking finasteride is unhelpful, unethical and counterproductive as you do not know if there will be symptomatic side effects and the degree of them, also ignoring that they can be mediated with other drugs and that allowing baldness to go freely could be devasting for some individuals like me - looking terrible, no confidence, no relationship, loniness, house Bonded, yada yada...

I do understand the intention is to warn people but for sure it is not the correct approach.

Lastly a combination of minoxidil and Miceoneedlimg might offer a more noticeable temporary regrowth but these drugs cannot interviene the mechanism of action of baldness the same way Finasteride can. The result will also be you bald...

I don't see it as trying to scare people away, but rather educating people holistically about the bad as well. People have been brainwashed with only positive information for too long. The term "fear mongerging" and trying to scare people away is only used on online forums as you would never see any respectable doctor not mention the potential side effects.

Yes while it may not occur in every person, for those who will be effected, this information could save peoples life.

Infact it is medically professionally speaking, it is the duty to say the potential side effects.

Yes while Minoxidil is not a true solution, neither is inhibiting DHT. If it was, as I mentioned, the majority of the male population would have good heads of hair, which obviously isn't anywhere near the case.
 

Manochoice

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It is of absolute importance to have in-depth conversations on this subject and have testimonials from both (or all) sides and then have each decide what they want to do. Based on countless threads and conversations and opinions expressed on this forum, paired with external articles and opinions I myself have reached the conclusion that finasteride is a very effective drug that when used in conjunction with other drugs, supplements, shampoos etc. can yield some very impressive cosmetic results. I have no doubt on that. I think most of the people will at least temporarily tolerate the drug well, with no or tolerable sides. At the same time I think there's a so called minority of people that will gets sides, some of whom will experience some very potent and potentially scary sides. Based on that I have concluded that for me personally it's not worth the risk - no matter how minimal that is - to my health, to my sexuality, to my personality to my anything. It is highly foolish to believe and float the idea that it is only a small, poor pill that should be taken as a sugar pill. It obviously does what nothing really did for millenias before. That being said, I appreciate both opinions coming from people who are successful in addressing their hair loss with no sided as well as from those who tried it, got sides and they let other know. It's not about scaring ppl off but about bringing awareness.
 

user394587

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It is of absolute importance to have in-depth conversations on this subject and have testimonials from both (or all) sides and then have each decide what they want to do. Based on countless threads and conversations and opinions expressed on this forum, paired with external articles and opinions I myself have reached the conclusion that finasteride is a very effective drug that when used in conjunction with other drugs, supplements, shampoos etc. can yield some very impressive cosmetic results. I have no doubt on that. I think most of the people will at least temporarily tolerate the drug well, with no or tolerable sides. At the same time I think there's a so called minority of people that will gets sides, some of whom will experience some very potent and potentially scary sides. Based on that I have concluded that for me personally it's not worth the risk - no matter how minimal that is - to my health, to my sexuality, to my personality to my anything. It is highly foolish to believe and float the idea that it is only a small, poor pill that should be taken as a sugar pill. It obviously does what nothing really did for millenias before. That being said, I appreciate both opinions coming from people who are successful in addressing their hair loss with no sided as well as from those who tried it, got sides and they let other know. It's not about scaring ppl off but about bringing awareness.
Bringing awareness is important, the problem is when the information being shared is misinterpreted.

Some information, like the potential risk for an increased likelihood of diabetes, is backed by research that has a statistically relevant sample size and decent study design. Other information that is tossed around is supported by studies that are, for a long list of reasons, extremely limited. Despite that, this information is spread around by individuals with no background in medicine or statistics who imply that the outcomes presented in said "studies" are nearly unavoidable. This obviously isn't the case.

Like you said, finasteride is not a sugar pill. On the same hand, it is not the equivalent of chemical castration. The reality is somewhere in the middle. What the evidence is clear on is that finasteride is a detriment to your physical health. How much of a detriment it is will largely come down to genetics and lifestyle. People have to weigh the information available and make a choice as to whether or not their hair is worth the pharmaceutical burden. The issue is that for individuals outside of medicine or statistics, this information is easily misinterpreted, and can result in erroneous conclusions being made. This is what doctors are supposed to exist for. Unfortunately, most MDs are clueless about endocrinology. This is why I think anyone considering finasteride should get comprehensive bloodwork done first and speak to an endocrinologist about their results, which should provide a clearer picture of the patient specific risks.
 

Micky_007

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Bringing awareness is important, the problem is when the information being shared is misinterpreted.

Some information, like the potential risk for an increased likelihood of diabetes, is backed by research that has a statistically relevant sample size and decent study design. Other information that is tossed around is supported by studies that are, for a long list of reasons, extremely limited. Despite that, this information is spread around by individuals with no background in medicine or statistics who imply that the outcomes presented in said "studies" are nearly unavoidable. This obviously isn't the case.

Like you said, finasteride is not a sugar pill. On the same hand, it is not the equivalent of chemical castration. The reality is somewhere in the middle. What the evidence is clear on is that finasteride is a detriment to your physical health. How much of a detriment it is will largely come down to genetics and lifestyle. People have to weigh the information available and make a choice as to whether or not their hair is worth the pharmaceutical burden. The issue is that for individuals outside of medicine or statistics, this information is easily misinterpreted, and can result in erroneous conclusions being made. This is what doctors are supposed to exist for. Unfortunately, most MDs are clueless about endocrinology. This is why I think anyone considering finasteride should get comprehensive bloodwork done first and speak to an endocrinologist about their results, which should provide a clearer picture of the patient specific risks.

There are many studies done proving that Finasteride is harmful in many other ways besides an increase in likelihood of diabetes. You've made assumptions of the intellectual capabilities of the people who have experienced side effects that they aren't capable of seeing through fact or fiction, which is false. So you really believe from the millions of people who have used Finasteride and had side effects that none of those people can understand medical and statistic information?

There are many people who not only are in the field or medicine or that studied stats, but many who have done studies in courses, degrees, etc or just being well read that helped them understand such information. People are not limited to their qualifications. Just like how very few doctors actually don't know about a lot of things, even though they are medical professionals. Education is not a true measure of intelligence.

There's many intelligent and well educated people in this very thread talking about how bad the side effects are of Finasteride and have presented many studies, and some were not even added as yet.

Furthermore, lack of studies/high cost studies does not necessarily mean lack of truth. Not everyone has the funding for high cost studies. But the fact that many many people have reported side effects from Finasteride, in addition to many proper studies and even verified Medical Doctors on Twitter confessing and discussing with other verified doctors on Twitter about how often their patients who use Finasteride experience side effects are very telling, there's a lot more that Big Pharma would like to be kept a secret.

But yes i agree with you, most MD's are clueless about endocrinology, hair and hairloss, including alternative treatments. Many MD's don't even know the full extent of the possible side effects of certain treatment.
 
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user394587

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There are many studies done proving that Finasteride is harmful in many other ways besides an increase in likelihood of diabetes. You've made assumptions of the intellectual capabilities of the people who have experienced side effects that they aren't capable of seeing through fact or fiction, which is false. So you really believe from the millions of people who have used Finasteride and had side effects that none of those people can understand medical and statistic information?

There are many people who not only are in the field or medicine or that studied stats, but many who have done studies in courses, degrees, etc or just being well read that helped them understand such information. People are not limited to their qualifications. Just like how very few doctors actually know about a lot of things, even though they are medical professionals. Education is not a true measure of intelligence.

There's many intelligent and well educated people in this very thread talking about how bad the side effects are of Finasteride and have presented many studies, and some were not even added as yet.

Furthermore, lack of studies/high cost studies does not necessarily mean lack of truth. Not everyone has the funding for high cost studies. But the fact that many many people have reported side effects from Finasteride, in addition to many proper studies and even verified Medical Doctors on Twitter confessing and discussing with other verified doctors on Twitter about how often their patients who use Finasteride experience side effects are very telling, there's a lot more that Big Pharma would like to be kept a secret.

But yes i agree with you, most MD's are clueless about endocrinology, hair and hairloss, including alternative treatments.
Well you're quite adept at shoving words into my mouth.

First, I never implied that diabetes was the only harmful potential side effect of finasteride. I used it as an example, hence me saying "some information".

Second, I never implied that all of the people making claims about the side effects of finasteride were unintelligent. Clearly that's not the case.

Third, low quality studies do not rule out finasteride as a potential association for certain side effects, however, they don't prove anything either. My point was that people use these studies as direct evidence for a causal link, which is an erroneous interpretation of the information.

Foruth, I'm not implying that people outside of medicine or statistics are incapable of understanding scientific articles around pharmaceuticals, simply that they are less likely to be able to. Obviously there's people outside of those fields who can interpret statistics.

You reference "many studies". My point wasn't that all of these studies are not statistically meaningful, only that some of them are. It's fine to present information that doesn't have as much statistical relevance as other information, as long as it is made clear that this is the case. In a lot of instances I've seen where such information has been presented, that hasn't been done.
 
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Manochoice

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"funny" things is we know more about Cosmos than endocrinology.

One other critical aspect of it when it comes to hair loss and what men are willing to undergo, is the age at which it happens. In my case, having good hair all through my 20s and then a manageable (yet aware of) hair situation through my 30s, simplified things and gave me the time and opportunity to take step back and think about it. Had it been occuring in my early 20s, I would have probably been more desperate, more risk taking and value hair more than other things. I feel like the world of hair loss is unfairly treating everyone in a cookie cutter sort of way and not taking into account the age at which it occurs. That makes such a huge difference and requires a different way to deal with it.
 

Micky_007

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Well you're quite adept at shoving words into my mouth.

First, I never implied that diabetes was the only harmful potential side effect of finasteride. I used it as an example, hence me saying "some information".

Second, I never implied that all of the people making claims about the side effects of finasteride were unintelligent. Clearly that's not the case.

Third, low quality studies do not rule out finasteride as a potential association for certain side effects, however, they don't prove anything either. My point was that people use these studies as direct evidence for a causal link, which is an erroneous interpretation of the information.

Foruth, I'm not implying that people outside of medicine or statistics are incapable of understanding scientific articles around pharmaceuticals, simply that they are less likely to be able to. Obviously there's people outside of those fields who can interpret statistics.

You reference "many studies". My point wasn't that all of these studies are not statistically meaningful, only that some of them are. It's fine to present information that doesn't have as much statistical relevance as other information, as long as it is made clear that this is the case. In a lot of instances I've seen where such information has been presented, that hasn't been done.

Glad you cleared that up.
 
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