Dr Erdogan online consultation

GoldenMane

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I emailed Dr Erdogan my pictures last week and inquired about having a pretty small hair transplant, not to lower my hairline or fill in my temples, just to round out my forelock a bit more for a smoother NW2 appearance. I was thinking maybe 700 or so grafts would suffice. This is the response I got today:

Thank you for your interest to our clinic. This is Dr Koray Erdogan's professional evaluation. According to the pictures we received the Doctor evaluates your general features as suitable for a hair transplant surgery and proposes 2600 grafts FUE surgery for your frontal area in 1 operation day. We need this graft number because in the first frontline we will use only single and double grafts for natural looking and as your original hair is dense we need more graft number to achieve close density to your original one. The Doctor recommends to continue the usage of Finasteride in order to maintain and optimise your original hair. If you use minoxidil or rogain you should stop it 2 months before the operation. The operation will be planned and carried out by Dr Koray Erdogan and his staff, composed by trustworthy, highly qualified and experienced team members. The surgery will be performed under local anaesthesia and its not painful. The graft extraction is done exclusively by MANUAL PUNCH (not micro motor), which represents until today the only instrument capable of preserving the patient's donor area and optimising the management of its resources, guarantying at the same time a higher quality of the extracted grafts and minimum scar outcomes.

Now this is A LOT more grafts than I was expecting to need, and obviously all used at the front edge of my hairline, so it doesn't leave much room for further hair transplants as my male pattern baldness eventually resumes.

I'm thinking the hair transplant proposed is not a very conservative one and maybe they think I want my hairline lower than I actually do. For the record, this is what I hoped to achieve (black line), and what i thought would require ~700 grafts:

IMG_0631.jpg

and this is my hairline up close from the front

IMG_1408.jpg

sorry it's upside down, don't know why that keeps happening.

Thoughts? Would you get a 2600 hair transplant with this hairline and likely destined for an NW5 or 6? Is it worth replying and discussing a more conservative hair transplant? I have no idea what exactly he even has in mind in terms of hairline shape and position...
 

DoctorHouse

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I emailed Dr Erdogan my pictures last week and inquired about having a pretty small hair transplant, not to lower my hairline or fill in my temples, just to round out my forelock a bit more for a smoother NW2 appearance. I was thinking maybe 700 or so grafts would suffice. This is the response I got today:

Thank you for your interest to our clinic. This is Dr Koray Erdogan's professional evaluation. According to the pictures we received the Doctor evaluates your general features as suitable for a hair transplant surgery and proposes 2600 grafts FUE surgery for your frontal area in 1 operation day. We need this graft number because in the first frontline we will use only single and double grafts for natural looking and as your original hair is dense we need more graft number to achieve close density to your original one. The Doctor recommends to continue the usage of Finasteride in order to maintain and optimise your original hair. If you use minoxidil or rogain you should stop it 2 months before the operation. The operation will be planned and carried out by Dr Koray Erdogan and his staff, composed by trustworthy, highly qualified and experienced team members. The surgery will be performed under local anaesthesia and its not painful. The graft extraction is done exclusively by MANUAL PUNCH (not micro motor), which represents until today the only instrument capable of preserving the patient's donor area and optimising the management of its resources, guarantying at the same time a higher quality of the extracted grafts and minimum scar outcomes.

Now this is A LOT more grafts than I was expecting to need, and obviously all used at the front edge of my hairline, so it doesn't leave much room for further hair transplants as my male pattern baldness eventually resumes.

I'm thinking the hair transplant proposed is not a very conservative one and maybe they think I want my hairline lower than I actually do. For the record, this is what I hoped to achieve (black line), and what i thought would require ~700 grafts:

View attachment 36024

and this is my hairline up close from the front

View attachment 36025

sorry it's upside down, don't know why that keeps happening.

Thoughts? Would you get a 2600 hair transplant with this hairline and likely destined for an NW5 or 6? Is it worth replying and discussing a more conservative hair transplant? I have no idea what exactly he even has in mind in terms of hairline shape and position...
You need to email them and ask them to show you on your photo what he has in mind for you. I honestly don't think Dr Erdogan likes to do small cases anymore. He averages around 2500 grafts on his low Norwood cases.
 

Wolf Pack

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Sounds like too much. You should have sent the picture of what you wanted him to do. My hairline is worse than yours in the sense I have bigger empty triangles on each side. I went for a UK consultation so I get an idea of what to expect when I hit overseas. Probably need 2k grafts.

I reckon 700 is too little for what you want. 1200 grafts all the way around is probably right.

Some surgeons can replicate good results with less grafts. Others like to dense pack for the same result. Obviously using the lowest number possible is best.
 

DoctorHouse

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Sounds like too much. You should have sent the picture of what you wanted him to do. My hairline is worse than yours in the sense I have bigger empty triangles on each side. I went for a UK consultation so I get an idea of what to expect when I hit overseas. Probably need 2k grafts.

I reckon 700 is too little for what you want. 1200 grafts all the way around is probably right.

Some surgeons can replicate good results with less grafts. Others like to dense pack for the same result. Obviously using the lowest number possible is best.
Rahal and Erdogan are dense packers that is why their hairlines look the best.
 

GoldenMane

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I see... I still think I could get a somewhat decent result with less than 1000 grafts. I mean, Fred covered an NW5 region with 2000, so it seems ridiculous to use 2600 for just a sliver on either side of my temples and a very slight hairline smoothing. There's no way I could use that many grafts, I'm sure the results would be amazing, but it would give almost nothing to fall back on for the rest of my scalp... Seems like Fred's hair transplant surgeon is capable of getting good results without dense packing, maybe I'll send him an email, see what he suggests. I'll also reply to Dr Erdogan and ask him exactly what he intended to create/ suggest my goals. I think I did send that photo when I emailed him, but didn't explicitly state the black line was my goal. Weening off minoxidil for two months before surgery also sounds dangerous, could potentially be a huge set back... Why two months? I understand why immediately after surgery it's necessary, but before? Am I to lose all my minoxidil gains before surgery?
 

DoctorHouse

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I see... I still think I could get a somewhat decent result with less than 1000 grafts. I mean, Fred covered an NW5 region with 2000, so it seems ridiculous to use 2600 for just a sliver on either side of my temples and a very slight hairline smoothing. There's no way I could use that many grafts, I'm sure the results would be amazing, but it would give almost nothing to fall back on for the rest of my scalp... Seems like Fred's hair transplant surgeon is capable of getting good results without dense packing, maybe I'll send him an email, see what he suggests. I'll also reply to Dr Erdogan and ask him exactly what he intended to create/ suggest my goals. I think I did send that photo when I emailed him, but didn't explicitly state the black line was my goal. Weening off minoxidil for two months before surgery also sounds dangerous, could potentially be a huge set back... Why two months? I understand why immediately after surgery it's necessary, but before? Am I to lose all my minoxidil gains before surgery?
If you think about you are going to gain 2600 grafts at the from instead and that is a great trade off for a slight shed if you stop using minoxidil for a few months. For what you might lose, you are going to gain so much more. Fred had low density so you can use less grafts to blend in. You have high density so you need more grafts to blend in with that so it won't look uneven. And secondly, that many grafts will protect you more in the future if you have more loss. From your photo, it looks like you have a high forehead so maybe he was taking that into account as well. How many fingers is it from the top of your eyebrow to your hairline?
 

I.D WALKER

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Some fine points you've made there Doctor.
If finasteride. is maintaining you GM, I think I would go balls to the wall with my frontal if I were under the knife of a top notch surgeon like Erdogan.

Ah to have my post juvey hair line again.
 

azurapose

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Dr Erdogan is also in my short list and he gave me the highest number among other clinics I sent pics.
I think Dr Erdogan transplant the grafts densely.
 

Pequod

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I wouldn't have it done, I would wait until I really needed that hair for more coverage. I can't imagine 2600 under that hairline. If you do become a NW5 you will be glad you waited.
 

GoldenMane

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Oh no, I've been on finasteride for two years, no problems. I'm a diffuse thinner and also experienced significant frontal recession. I agree Pequod, I really can't justify using so many grafts on such a tiny area of my hairline. The most I would be willing to use at this stage is 1000. If Dr Erdogan requires dense packing in order to achieve results, I'd view that as somewhat wasteful of a limited resource that I'm going to need later in life. I'm sure he's a great surgeon, I've seen the results, but using 2600 now would be wreckless and scupper my long term coverage possibilities. I'll shop around and see if anyone gets good results with lower graft density. I'm not looking for a perfect hairline, I don't even want to lower my hairline, just smooth it out a bit towards the temple area.

I do have a very high forehead, even before I began losing hair that was the case. Right now, from my eyebrows, it's about 4 finger widths. At my temples it's actually a little over 5.

I've ordered some 15% minoxidil so I'll up my dose again sand see if that can get me any closer to my desired hairline, if it can, then maybe I can delay a hair transplant for a few more years. Not sure if 15% would be significantly more effective than the 10% I've been using for 3+ months, but worth a shot while I'm shopping around.
 

Wolf Pack

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Bit strange. This is by the same Doctor and 1950 grafts, bigger area too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4SVIxlIN-U

Lol 2600 is unbelievable for your situation. Maybe he picked up the hair is very thin/fine looking so playing it safe?

Damn, this Doctor's work is incredible at the hairline.
 

DoctorHouse

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Bit strange. This is by the same Doctor and 1950 grafts, bigger area too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4SVIxlIN-U

Lol 2600 is unbelievable for your situation. Maybe he picked up the hair is very thin/fine looking so playing it safe?

Damn, this Doctor's work is incredible at the hairline.
Wolf, when I see this type of transformation, I want this doctor to be the one who does mine. And I want it done "yesterday". He is a real artist. He is just as good as Rahal for almost half the price.
 

GoldenMane

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@ Isis It's really difficult to say if 10% is much better tbh, maybe? It hasn't been a night and day difference, but maybe some new hairs at my hairline. Nothing too drastic in terms of difference.

@ vincent Nah, the email didn't mention grafts per cm2, I gather they can't actually determine that from photos alone.

@wolfpack, that dude has WAY more hairloss than me. His hair looks more like my before situation, and even then I'm not sure If I was quite that bad. If 1900 grafts can do that hen surely I can get my much more conservative hairline with under 1000... Even with my fine hair.

I agree, Erdogan does amazing hairlines, and so cheap. If I was destined for an NW3 or 4, I wouldn't hesitate to go for the 2600 graft surgery. But as someone destined for NW5 or 6 it's just wreckless imo....
 

Wolf Pack

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Wolf, when I see this type of transformation, I want this doctor to be the one who does mine. And I want it done "yesterday". He is a real artist. He is just as good as Rahal for almost half the price.

Yes Doctor, I am thinking the same. I need to go to someone who is used to coarse hair though, apparently hairline is more challenging. Even my native hair looks like a wig or very puffed up :confused: I suppose that lowers the expectation though! You should go ahead with it, often when we are thinking shall we? Shall we not? The answer is usually that we want to but are finding reasons not to.

- - - Updated - - -

@wolfpack, that dude has WAY more hairloss than me. His hair looks more like my before situation, and even then I'm not sure If I was quite that bad. If 1900 grafts can do that hen surely I can get my much more conservative hairline with under 1000... Even with my fine hair.

That's what I mean bro. That he has more loss but he got that look with the same surgeon for 1950 grafts. I am confused why you were quoted many grafts. Then again this surgeon is highly regarded and probably saw something in your pictures that warranted that many grafts.
 

GoldenMane

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That's what I meant wolf pack, why this is so shocking!

I have another question for anyone who can answer; Why is it necessary to quit minoxidil 2 months before the surgery? I get what doctorhouse said, that the hairline trade off is worth it, but I'm a diffuse thinner. What if I quit minoxidil for 3 months, shed all over, my hairline is okay, but does my crown and mid anterior recover? Does hair lost from quitting minoxidil grow back once minoxidil has been resumed? If so, how long should it take? I don't want to gain ground at the front and thin out on top...
 

DoctorHouse

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That's what I meant wolf pack, why this is so shocking!

I have another question for anyone who can answer; Why is it necessary to quit minoxidil 2 months before the surgery? I get what doctorhouse said, that the hairline trade off is worth it, but I'm a diffuse thinner. What if I quit minoxidil for 3 months, shed all over, my hairline is okay, but does my crown and mid anterior recover? Does hair lost from quitting minoxidil grow back once minoxidil has been resumed? If so, how long should it take? I don't want to gain ground at the front and thin out on top...
Minoxidil is a vasoDILATOR so you don't want that if you are bleeding. You will bleed even more with minoxidil. Since minoxidil is a growth stimulator, you should recover. I asked this question in other threads. If you shed perfectly healthy non vellus hairs, will them come back again even if it might be slight thinner? Or do you lose that hair forever? I guess if it was a weak hair, it might not come back like in shock loss. However supposedly it will come back. Minoxidil just shifts more hairs into growth, so you shed more hairs at the same time which gives the illusion you are getting worse.
 

TransientHair

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2600 seems crazy high for what you want. He may have been thinking about reinforcing your forelock to offset any future loss.
 

I.D WALKER

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Tell him you're more comfortable with a smaller (1500 mx) session because your hair status satisfies you overall and/or you are also concerned about potential shock loss of native hair due to an unnecessarily ambitious hair transplant. Be sure and tell him you'll be sure to visit his office again when your male pattern baldness eventually advances to an undesirable state. He will be perfectly fine with this sensible request. GoodLuck
 

GoldenMane

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Good advice I.D, Yeah, I'll tell him 1200 is my limit and that I will return for further surgeries as it progresses. No point reinforcing my hairline, it's decently thick and I don't want grafts competing for blood supply with native follicles/shock loss.

@ House, so if somebody quits minoxidil for three months, then resumes, while staying on finasteride, is it likely for their hair to return to full thickness (as it was on minoxidil?)

Also, is 2 months prior really necessary? minoxidil doesn't stay in your system very long, 2 months in advance seems a bit excessive... I thought maybe I'd quit a week before, then resume a week or two after surgery...
 
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