Does the body need DHT?

[nydheart]

Probably a really dumb question but I am about to start my first treatment with finasteride. at 0.25 mg per day but had a question about DHT. I know that finasteride blocks a certain percentage of DHT but my question is the body must need DHT for something so what are the effects (other than growing hair) of blocking it? Is it possible to block to much DHT? Thanks.

 

[paximperia]

The body does need DHT prior to birth. After that the answer is basically "no one knows". What we do know is that males born without DHT have genital deformities, breasts, and a full head of hair. The genital deformities occur during gestation, and possibly during puberty (although this is speculation because no one has carried out clinical trials for Finasteride in 12 year old boys, and likely never will). Suppressing large amounts of DHT (type 1 and 2) is known to increase the incidence of sexual side-effects and cause gynocomastia (look at the side-effects for 2.5mg/day of Dutasteride).

The Propecia trials had no gynocomastia and only limited other side-effects. Propecia only blocks Type II DHT, so the side-effect profile for Proscar (5mg Finasteride) might be a more representative.

 

[nydheart]

pax, what is the difference between type 1 and type 2 DHT? Do they serve two different functions? What percentage of type 2 DHT does finasteride. block? Maybe what is remaining after starting finasteride is all the male body needs?

 

[paximperia]

Type 1 and type 2 DHT are located in different parts of the body, so yes they probably serve different functions. Type 2 is found in hair follicles and is thought to be the type of DHT involved in hair loss. Propecia blocks about 70% of DHT type 2 in the blood, and about 40% in the scalp. No one knows how much the body "needs", because this is impossible to test. We know that (other than the genital deformities present at birth) people who genetically do not produce any type 2 DHT live healthy lives in all other aspects. We also know that after 5 years of taking Propecia, the men in the clinical trials did not have any serious reactions, and that all side-effects stopped when they stopped taking Propecia. These side-effects are continually monitored by the FDA. Proscar (the 5mg form of Propecia) has been around since 1992 for treatment of a different disorder called BPH, and there still have been no serious adverse side-effects reported.

 

[Jacob]

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/arnold/dht.htm

Topically makes more sense anyway.

 

[paximperia]

Except there are no studies proving that topical Finasteride is effective (as far as I know), and no one knows the correct dosage for topical Finasteride even if it does work. The topical per-day dosage of Minoxidil and oral Minoxidil are very different. If that's any indication...

 

[Armando Jose]

The body does need DHT prior to birth. After that the answer is basically "no one knows".

NO one knows or no one wants to know?

Androgen-induced neurite outgrowth is mediated by neuritin in motor neurones
http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/b ... 1/art00002

Armando

 

[Bryan]

I know that finasteride blocks a certain percentage of DHT but my question is the body must need DHT for something so what are the effects (other than growing hair) of blocking it? Is it possible to block to much DHT?

As others in this thread have indicated, nobody knows for sure just how important DHT is, after gestation and then later after puberty. But you're completely overlooking another more subtle question, which may be even more important: just how necessary is the 5a-reductase enzyme itself??

I hope you're catching my main drift, which is that the enzyme 5a-reductase does more things in the body than simply convert testosterone into DHT. It performs other chemical conversions, too, and those _may_ be important. For example, it converts the hormone progesterone into dihydroprogesterone (DHP). Whether or not it's harmful to inhibit those other processes in the long-run is really anybody's guess.

 

[Bryan]

Propecia blocks about 70% of DHT type 2 in the blood...

Actually, the Gisleskog et al studies found that finasteride at the Proscar dose (5 mg/day) inhibits a daily average of about 90% of the type 2 5a-reductase enzyme. My "guesstimate" is that the smaller Propecia dose of 1 mg/day would probably inhibit about 85% of it, give or take...

 

[Jacob]

It doesn't have to be just finasteride either..topically speaking.

Patrick Arnold's article there is one of my favs :bravo:

 

[nydheart]

Ok so essentially no one knows the long term issues of your body running with reduced (type 2 up to 85%) DHT in the case of using finasteride. But the research done by merck shows at this point no long term negatives using finasteride. and claim that any side effects will dissapear after you stop taking the drug.

The question I have is does anyone know why some people who get off of the drug due to side effects claim to have long term issues? For example I have read that some people have claimed to have sides for up to a year after getting off the drug? How is this possible? Do you think some peoples bodies are permanantly damaged by the reduction of DHT?

 

[Bryan]

The question I have is does anyone know why some people who get off of the drug due to side effects claim to have long term issues? For example I have read that some people have claimed to have sides for up to a year after getting off the drug? How is this possible? Do you think some peoples bodies are permanantly damaged by the reduction of DHT?

Nobody knows the answers to those questions, including doctors and scientists.

 

[abcdefg]

Yeah its a pretty simple answer. As is the case with most drugs science simply does not understand what in this case DHT and everything it interacts with does exactly. Usually we treat what we guess is the problem, but we certainly arent always right or probably even close to the correct solution.
DHT, however rogain works, and numerous future methods all may play a part but theres so much to it.Its complex far beyond science still. Part of the problem is just to dam hard to test and isolate certain things.

 

[RaginDemon]

DHT is responsible for your body hair growth.

 

[abcdefg]

why does dht make body hair grow but opposite effect on head hair? What is a safe way to lower dht without changing the other hormones? Why do some men simply keep losing hair if DHT is the true solution and 95 percent of hairloss is androgen/genetic then propecia should stop hairloss in 95 percent of cases but it doesnt. We just dont know the answer to these. Why do some men have sides after they stop propecia? i mean not to scare anyone but the truth is we dont know and may not know for many years

 

[RaginDemon]

nobody knows the answer, but I guess we should be happy that finasteride at least helps 85% of the users maintain their hair.

That is a sucessful story after all.

 

[abcdefg]

True maybe i should stop being so negative.

 

[RaginDemon]

True maybe i should stop being so negative.

Live your life bro...I know its VERY unfortunate we have to deal with this sh*t, but if we look around, there are a lot more ppl suffering with other diseases that are a lot of worse than us.

GL on the treatment!

 

[DHTfighter33]

I know that finasteride blocks a certain percentage of DHT but my question is the body must need DHT for something so what are the effects (other than growing hair) of blocking it? Is it possible to block to much DHT?

As others in this thread have indicated, nobody knows for sure just how important DHT is, after gestation and then later after puberty. But you're completely overlooking another more subtle question, which may be even more important: just how necessary is the 5a-reductase enzyme itself??

I hope you're catching my main drift, which is that the enzyme 5a-reductase does more things in the body than simply convert testosterone into DHT. It performs other chemical conversions, too, and those _may_ be important. For example, it converts the hormone progesterone into dihydroprogesterone (DHP). Whether or not it's harmful to inhibit those other processes in the long-run is really anybody's guess.

Do you think people really need 5a-reductase? Isn't it true that many asians, native americans and genitcally predisposed men don't create this enzyme? Does this mean they can't really develop during puberty? It surely doesn't effect many asians congnitive ability, and yet some of them never need to shave their faces, and lose no hair.

 

[Armando Jose]

Isn't it true that many asians, native americans and genitcally predisposed men don't create this enzyme?

Your first post and very strong belief. Have you references?

Armando