Do transplanted hair stay in temples without finasteride?

BetaBoy

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Crazy how you can see how strong a man is mentally just by how they deal with balding. Incels and beta boys get extemely traumatized by balding, lose their sanity and study it obsessively for years without taking any action, meanwhile slayers just coldly hop on finasteride or book a transplant and move on with life.
I guess we are to assume you fall into the not "strong man" group considering you are still here?
 

whatintheworld

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@BetaBoy here is yet another case of a guy who quit finasteride and had the same thing happen:


It looks like this forum blocks references to the other forum...you may just need to go there through google to open it.

If you don't here's what he said:

I hope someone here has had the same experience I'm having.

I've had my 1st and only FUT ~2,400 grafts about 8 years go with Dr. Rahal when I was 30, I'm an Norwood 6 but I was still a NW2/3 back then due to finasteride (took it for 10+ years before the hair transplant).

One year after, it looked great in the broad daylight, great density.

Stopped taking finasteride (due to side-effects, I'm not going back to it) and I've been losing more and more hair over time. It makes sense I'd loose in the back but my question is about the recipient area in the front, that looks worse than before the hair transplant. I can see through in very low light. Concealers are not helping anymore.

I thought the transplanted hair wouldn't fall anymore. Is it because I'm losing the non-transplanted hair and the hair transplant hair was mixed with non-transplanted hair? If yes, seems like I should have waited and just used toppik at the time, until I lost more hair so the hair transplant would have been done with more available area and thus with higher density to begin with?

What's the usual density of a hair transplant? Is it normal to have 2 surgeries for more density? Would another hair transplant create more density?

I'm also exploring exosomes and PRP but if my non-transplanted hair is gone, then this won't help and I should prob have another hair transplant.

I'm going to pay for a consultation soon but thought I should ask here first cos all clinics I inquire wants to charge me a fee. And would be good to have different opinions. I'm also e-mailing a patient advisor from Dr. Rahal and will post here updates.

Thank you
 
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Pls_NW-1

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I cant seem to find anything (real example) where transplants thin out after 10 years and more.
 

Pls_NW-1

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What would you consider a "real example"? A patient posting on a forum after 10+ years?
If this is true, then there have to be as well an evidence showing that transplants do miniaturize, despite of being from the donor area.

How would we "know", if there weren't any evidence showing it? Or is this all BroScience...? Lol
 

whatintheworld

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If this is true, then there have to be as well an evidence showing that transplants do miniaturize, despite of being from the donor area.

How would we "know", if there weren't any evidence showing it? Or is this all BroScience...? Lol
There are several links in this thread, videos, and studies from google scholar that all provide some evidence. Did you not read them?
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I assume things are aesthetically better than in the pas but it used to be that the temples and hairline were danger areas in terms of the grafts being exposed and not blending in completely. Apparently larger grafts survive better than micro-grafts but micro-grafts tend to look more natural. I would always opt to leave some balding in the temples because it looks more natural and is less noticeable. It's similar to hair pieces where not having the hairline too low might make it blend in and look more natural but virtually no guys are willing to do this. They go for the Paul Reiser look and it is just obvious that it is a system.
 
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whatintheworld

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Some more:

This forum blocks the link...will past contents:

"
I had a hair transplant at the end of 2011 and the procedure went well and was done by a physician who is rated as one of the top ones on this site, so i have no issues with how the procedure was done or the physician's credibilities. I had a significant number of grafts placed in the front region of my head (over 3500) and my hair grew over the course of the 12-18 months cycle. It wasn't perfect, but it definitely had significant growth. Over the last couple years, the hair has significantly thinned out and neither the doctor or I can explain why. This past December I decided to do another hair transplant, so we will see how that goes.

Has anyone encountered anything like this? I actually just had some bloodwork done yesterday to make sure everything was working properly. All the normal blood work came back fine, but my doctor did an additional test for Thyroid Antibodies and they were slightly elevated, which could be a sign of something autoimmune. I'm wondering if there is any correlation between that and me losing transplanted hair.

Just trying to see if anyone has any information that would be helpful for me. Appreciate it in advance"

I had hair transplants 30 years ago. After the transplants grew in, it took about 2-3 years before I began to lose hair again, although this might have only the hairs growing between the transplanted hairs. Nevertheless, over time I lost more and more hair every few years. Then about 25 years after my transplants, the strangest thing started to happen: many transplanted hairs began to have smaller and smaller diameters, some almost as fine as spider silk.
I suspect a few things: We have heard that when body hair is transplanted to the scalp, that the transplanted body hair begins to take on more of the characteristics of head hair.
Might it not be possible that when donor hair from the back of the head is transplanted to the top of the head, that donor hair starts to acquire the characteristics of hair at the top of the head, including a susceptibility to male pattern baldness--although it may take decades for that trait to be acquired from the surrounding tissues?
 
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JaneyElizabeth

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Why do you assert his donor is thinning?

Again. It doesn't have to be 100% immune to DHT to be safe in the donor area. The donor area is different than the recipient area. It does not have the calcification, fibrosis, poor blood flow, and susceptibility to DHT that the recipient area does.
I don't agree that this is true for diffuse thinners. They are using non-balding but yes, compromised hair. People with completely unaffected fringe are the best bets for great results. Otherwise, garbage in, garbage out. Some people are so desperate to have a few strands in front to comb that they often make mistakes in terms of pursuing transplants as a treatment but again, I assume things are better now.

But for people with unaffected fringe, even in the late 80's, I saw some amazing work with essentially restoration of juvenile or early 20's hairlines for people who were horse shoe bald. One thing about the link to whether there is a safe zone, the fellow at the end has a result that can be typical where you can't wear the hair in a razor-cut any longer without it being noticeable. This put me off from military service and I still have areas that were over-harvested.

The good news is that micro-needling can restore scar tissue both in the donor area and on top. Often, at least in the olden days, grafts would only partially take and they wouldn't lie flat. 18 months of microneedling has all but cleared all of the cobblestoning and pluggy-ness. Micro-needling is amazing and I am so thankful to have discovered this incredible youth-making tool. I micro-needle all areas and especially on the right side of my head that was over-harvested.

Second thing is that I was assiduous about using min/finasteride and so my donor area didn't shrink any but this is absolutely a danger and don't think, "oh, this will get me off finasteride/min--danger, danger, Will Robinson!"

In terms of HRT and restoration of over-harvested areas, I believe that the body via cross-talk can actually increase follicle diameter to make up for thin or over-harvested areas and this has been one of the most gratifying things for me. Once you micro-needle the plugs, it can be hard to tell if they are even transplants any longer. The body seems to incorporate them better and better so many plugs that only had a couple of hairs before have now integrated, lie flat and seem to be completely filled in. The grafts are still likely to be much lighter in skin and hair color though so taking pics of the crown area for instance can end up being too reflective to indicate how good the area might look. In pics, this can look like thinning areas when it is actually the flash. Hair whorls are a natural version of this effect and we have all seen the "am I balding--hair whorl" questions on here.

Finally, when I complained about my initial results, the doctor said, "oh, you must be a scar-er (which is a word that doesn't actually exist but anyway) and that is why your donor area didn't heal well." Now you tell me, I thought. I ended up needing some refinements a few years later but once finasteride came out, I began to wish that I had never gone the transplant road. It was my secret shame, tied to not having investigated enough and feeling "botched". Transplants are a huge decision, maybe not as big as HRT but they will change the way your hair behaves (without micro-needling, perhaps) forever, better or worse it may be. My donor area hurt for years whenever I combed it and hit the donor areas that never shrank back as much as they were "supposed to".
 
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whatintheworld

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I don't agree that this is true for diffuse thinners. They are using non-balding but yes, compromised hair. People with completely unaffected fringe are the best bets for great results. Otherwise, garbage in, garbage out. Some people are so desperate to have a few strands in front to comb that they often make mistakes in terms of pursuing transplants as a treatment but again, I assume things are better now.

But for people with unaffected fringe, even in the late 80's, I saw some amazing work with essentially restoration of juvenile or early 20's hairlines.

I agree. I think it is ethical for the surgeon to inform the patient of these risks if, after microscopic inspection, some clearer signs of this are visible.

To be fair though, I have rarely seen a high Norwood with an extremely strong fringe area. Usually almost all high Norwoods have compromised donors to some extent.

Without finasteride I would likely be in this category. I would be very unsure of getting a transplant without it. I could feel my donor hair weakening in addition to having retrograde alopecia around my nape and ear areas. Ever since taking finasteride though the surrounding donor hair has been preserved so far, and it's been about 5 years that I've been on it.
 

JaneyElizabeth

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Some more:

This forum blocks the link...will past contents:

"
I had a hair transplant at the end of 2011 and the procedure went well and was done by a physician who is rated as one of the top ones on this site, so i have no issues with how the procedure was done or the physician's credibilities. I had a significant number of grafts placed in the front region of my head (over 3500) and my hair grew over the course of the 12-18 months cycle. It wasn't perfect, but it definitely had significant growth. Over the last couple years, the hair has significantly thinned out and neither the doctor or I can explain why. This past December I decided to do another hair transplant, so we will see how that goes.

Has anyone encountered anything like this? I actually just had some bloodwork done yesterday to make sure everything was working properly. All the normal blood work came back fine, but my doctor did an additional test for Thyroid Antibodies and they were slightly elevated, which could be a sign of something autoimmune. I'm wondering if there is any correlation between that and me losing transplanted hair.

Just trying to see if anyone has any information that would be helpful for me. Appreciate it in advance"

I had hair transplants 30 years ago. After the transplants grew in, it took about 2-3 years before I began to lose hair again, although this might have only the hairs growing between the transplanted hairs. Nevertheless, over time I lost more and more hair every few years. Then about 25 years after my transplants, the strangest thing started to happen: many transplanted hairs began to have smaller and smaller diameters, some almost as fine as spider silk.
I suspect a few things: We have heard that when body hair is transplanted to the scalp, that the transplanted body hair begins to take on more of the characteristics of head hair.
Might it not be possible that when donor hair from the back of the head is transplanted to the top of the head, that donor hair starts to acquire the characteristics of hair at the top of the head, including a susceptibility to male pattern baldness--although it may take decades for that trait to be acquired from the surrounding tissues?
Some of the issue to me, having had similar transplanted hair that was barely visible has to do with blood supply. I don't think that the grafts took exactly right and the graft has compromised blood supply. Micro-needling can take care of this or at least it has for me. When I started micro-needling, every single time the grafts on top would scab over and become more and more integrated with the rest of the scalp tissue. I think micro-needling should be part of all transplant preparation and an integral part of the healing process both in donor areas and on top. I feel so much less butchered and botched now that I am actually able to share this information now. Before, I wouldn't discuss it with anyone. It hurt too much so folks, don't make things worse. Transplants are expensive and people get mad if I say a form of mutilation but they involve taking healthy skin grafts to put on top of other healthy skin which is non-hair bearing. They aren't permanent except for those horse shoe folks with very high unaffected fringe. For those folks only, they can be miraculous. For the rest of us, eh, our mileage may vary....
 

JaneyElizabeth

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I agree. I think it is ethical for the surgeon to inform the patient of these risks if, after microscopic inspection, some clearer signs of this are visible.

To be fair though, I have rarely seen a high Norwood with an extremely strong fringe area. Usually almost all high Norwoods have compromised donors to some extent.

Without finasteride I would likely be in this category. I would be very unsure of getting a transplant without it. I could feel my donor hair weakening in addition to having retrograde alopecia around my nape and ear areas. Ever since taking finasteride though the surrounding donor hair has been preserved so far, and it's been about 5 years that I've been on it.
I know what you mean. I could try to find something on google images but let me say that it would be fringe similar to what I notice on many balding Asian men, meaning the hair on the sides and back of the head has essentially never degraded even since puberty. It has to be of that type of quality and then again, who knows what the future holds. But I saw a gentleman in his 40's and even with the rough techniques of days gone by, all of the circular grafts almost touched but not quite but it made for a lot of volume. The hairline was rough as they tended to be back then but this guy wore his hair almost like bangs. His donor area healed so well that it was difficult to even find it and he had had hundreds of the much larger plugs done and they all shrank perfectly in the donor area.

But this is rare and of course, this clinic used him as their model. When I saw the horrendous combover transplant on the doctor to be performing the transplant, I should have run for cover, lol.
 
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