Cold Therapy

[HairIsPossible]

This is a x-post from /AlternativeTreatments

Though many of you are completely stuck on genetic DHT sensitivity theory, the open minded have already realized this theory cannot possibly be complete. The most advanced of these individuals have come to understand that it is the loss of subcutaneous fat on the top of the scalp and the hypoxic environments this creates which is the mechanism responsible for the miniaturization of follicles. These individuals also understand that the conversion of testosterone to DHT is favored in hypoxic environments and that DHT has a negative effect on these critical layers of fat surrounding hair follicles. This is why higher DHT counts are found in the scalps of balding individuals and this is also why blocking the enzyme which converts testosterone to DHT can aid the prevention of more hair loss. There is no special androgenic sensitivity in the scalp follicles, DHT acts to stimulate the growth of these follicles just as it does anywhere else on the body, but how can a follicle grow if it is receiving no oxygen rich blood flow? It cannot, so without adequate subcutaneous fat protecting a follicle allowing for adequate blood flow, no amount of DHT can help a follicle to a grow and that follicle will miniaturize.

Now that the mechanism behind male pattern baldness has explained, let us consider some treatments.

Often, when individuals find out that hair loss is caused by the loss of fat in the scalp they consider the following ideas as treatment:

1. Increase the amount of omega fatty acids in their diet
2. Rub a fatty substance like butter on the top of their scalp
3. Find a doctor and tell them to inject fat into their scalp (like a lip injection)

Now I can't say for sure that none of these would work, but I wish to propose another idea that I have not seen anyone ever mention.

Cold Therapy

​How can we communicate to the body our need to rebuild the layer of subcutaneous fat on top of the scalp?

What will signal to the body that it needs to produce fat?

The cold.

The body increases fat production in response to cold and specifically it increases the amount of brown adipose fat.

The difficulty here is developing a method that will signal to the body to produce fat only on top of the scalp, because if the entire body is exposed to the cold it will adapt by improving circulation and increasing brown adipose fat across the whole body until it can adequately cope with the cold. Though this will has tremendous beneficially effects for a person's health and it is recommended (see Wim Hof Cold Showers), it will not help us much in restoring the layer of fat on the scalp.

I am experimenting with putting only the top of my scalp under cold water for 5 minutes several times per day as a way to signal to my body that my scalp in particular needs its fat layer to be enhanced, but refining this method may take some time. In the meantime, I wish to hear your thoughts on these ideas.

 

[Sweeping]

Take baseline pictures before starting the treatment. Do it for 6 months. Come back and tell me how it goes. I'll do it with you, but instead of taking cold showers, I'll take my 1.5 mg dutasteride ED. Let's see who gets better results. Good luck.

 

[HairIsPossible]

Take baseline pictures before starting the treatment. Do it for 6 months. Come back and tell me how it goes. I'll do it with you, but instead of taking cold showers, I'll take my 1.5 mg dutasteride ED. Let's see who gets better results. Good luck.

When did this forum become PubMed?

 

[Sweeping]

When did this become a forum full of idiots who recommend people to take cold showers to stop hairloss? You're a f*cking idiot.

 

[Swoop]

Made myself a ice helmet, like this;

Will report back in 6 months.

 

[HairIsPossible]

When did this become a forum full of idiots who recommend people to take cold showers to stop hairloss? You're a f*cking idiot.

I am not gung-ho on my proposed method. I am more interested in discussing and refining my understanding of the real mechanism of androgenic alopecia which I am convinced is due to erosion of the localized fatty tissue surrounding a hair follicle and not due to "genetic androgenic sensitivity."

I do believe androgenic alopecia is related to genetics and heredity, but this the result of thousands of genes. There is no single "balding gene" and furthermore, there are no hair follicles which are miniaturizing because DHT is binding to their receptors.

DHT plays a role in the process, that role relates to the gradual erosion of the fatty tissue which protects the hair follicle and the capillaries that feed it.

It should come as no surprise that in 30 years since the DHT sensitivity theory became king there have been no new effective treatments present on the market. After finasteride, minoxidil and hair transplants were established effective science seemed to have come to a complete halt.

Why is that? It is because that theory is incorrect, but because the public believes it they can be sold medication which they are eternally dependent on for the maintenance of their hair.

If the real mechanism behind hair loss were to be addressed. It would be much less profitable for the medical establishment to administer a cure.

 

[Agustin Araujo]

Androgenetic Alopecia is a multi-faceted issue, and the reason why we're so fixated on DHT sensitivity is because that hormone itself plays such an enormous role in the balding process. It's going to be hard to convince that 'Cold Therapy' will help since there's no real scientific evidence to back it up.

 

[HairIsPossible]

Androgenetic Alopecia is a multi-faceted issue, and the reason why we're so fixated on DHT sensitivity is because that hormone itself plays such an enormous role in the balding process. It's going to be hard to convince that 'Cold Therapy' will help since there's no real scientific evidence to back it up.

I agree there is no evidence backing up cold therapy.

However, there is evidence backing up the idea that hair loss is caused by compromised fatty tissue around the follicle and that there is no specialized genetic sensitivity to DHT in any hair follicles.

DHT does play a huge role in the balding process and that role is apparent. DHT reduces "baby fat" and in the hair follicles on top of the scalp this fat is a tremendous importance. It is absolutely necessary to protect the follicles and capillary that feeds them from damage.

DHT does not spontaneously signal the hair follicle to miniaturize as most of the medical community currently believes.

DHT, if anything, signals for the follicles on the top of the head to grow, just like it does in any other follicle on the body however if the fatty tissue which protects the follicle has eroded and the capillaries which feed the follicle are damaged the follicle can not grow.

 

[Swoop]

​

It's not really working for wim hof the iceman, is it?

Weak brittle thin hair and receded.

 

[HairIsPossible]

It's not really working for wim hof the iceman, is it?​

Weak brittle thin hair and receded.

To my knowledge, Wim Hof has never tried to cure his hair loss, but you are talking about man who has scientifically proven that he could control his immune system, so if he put his mind to it I wouldn't bet against him.

Wim Hof has also never tried localized cold exposure, he always subjects his whole body the cold when he does so.

I am not certain that my cold therapy idea will work. In fact, I am quite certain it will not work. What I want to get across is that:

The cure for androgenic alopecia must address the erosion of protective fatty tissue surrounding the follicles on the top of the scalp.

 

[Swoop]

Did you know this?

 

[HairIsPossible]

Did you know this?

I don't see your point.

If the subcutaneous fatty layer shrinks in between anagen phases wouldn't it make sense that the anagen phase follicle would not be a strong and thick as in previous cycles?

 

[paleocapa89]

There was a study when balding and non-balding hair follicles were transplanted to the arm (If I remember correctly) and the balding HF continued to miniaturize, while the non-balding continued to grow. If that study is correct and replicable (I'm highlighting his because I only found one such study) then it shows that the balding hair follicle is genetically different and that is the main issue.

 

[HairIsPossible]

There was a study when balding and non-balding hair follicle was transplanted to the arm (If I remember correctly) and the balding HF continued to miniaturize, while the non-balding continued to grow. If that study is correct and replicable (I'm highlighting his because I only found one such study) then it shows that the balding hair follicle is genetically different and that is the main issue.

That is not what it conclusively demonstrates. What they study did prove conclusively is that the mechanism of miniaturization is happening on a level localized to the immediate follicle which is exactly what I am saying is the case.

Also, it is impossible that the follicles on the top of the scalp are "genetically different." It is fundamental to the principles of genetics that every cell in your body has exactly the same DNA. You mean to say there are phenotypic differences between the follicles, such as the amount of androgen receptor sites for example. This may be true, but it does not prove that that a signal pathway is responsible for the miniaturization of follicles. I find no evidence of this conventional belief. I see a tremendous amount of evidence of a vicious feedback cycle by which the subcutaneous fat is completely eroded in follicles at the top of the scalp.

If you wanted to disprove my claim using an arm transplant experiment it would be rather easy:

1. Take a few men with no androgenic alopecia between the ages of 20 and 35
2. Transplant a few dozen hairs from the top of their head to their forearm or anywhere else on their body
3. Wait 10 to 15 years
4. Compare the rate of miniaturization between these transplanted follicles and the rest of the follicles on top of the scalp
5. As a control group do the same thing with another group of men transplanting follicles from the back or side of their head

The results would be very interesting and would tell us a lot about the mechanism at work here whatever it may be.

 

[paleocapa89]

You are right, I meant the HF on top of the head have a different gene expression.

I don't see how your proposed experiment is different. According to the study I mentioned, hair follicles taken from the top of the head of a balding man continued to miniaturize when transplanted into his forearm, while the HF taken from his donor region continued to grow when it was also transplanted to his forearm.

I can't remember whether the study used non balding men as controls to repeat the same procedure on them.

Also, FUE hair transplant show that even a man who's been bald for 20 years can have his donor follicles transplanted to his frontal scalp (with very little or no fat taken with them) and they still going to grow there.

 

[Swoop]

I don't see your point.

If the subcutaneous fatty layer shrinks in between anagen phases wouldn't it make sense that the anagen phase follicle would not be a strong and thick as in previous cycles?

The vascularization and adipose tissue is not static between anagen, catagen and telogen but variable. In telogen for instance the hair follicle is barely vascularized, in anagen vascularization increases tremendously.

And yes, it does come back as strong as thick as in previous cycles.

You would not suffer from Androgenetic Alopecia if you would castrate yourself pre-pubertally. Haven't you ever looked at the studies done by Hamilton?

 

[Mach]

I say let the guy hammer away with the ice theory.
Ice bath compresses blood vessels flushing "waste" out. Warming that area increases blood flow. I'm guessing timing would be critical for maximum healing.
Wound, supplements, ice 6-10 minutes, warm with hair dryer.
I've tried this but I'm lazy. I can't keep consistent. the idea isn't to freeze but flush old out and flush new in. I'd say wounding because that might attract better growth factors. think of an athlete that needs to recover (bodybuilding). Actually a nice serving of C4 supplement would blow up your veins nicely for nutrient flow.

For ice I'd look at a shoulder pack that is flexible. I have one I'd wrap around my knee that fits my horseshoe nicely.

I live the nah sayers on this forum. We don't even know what exactly causes male pattern baldness or how minoxidil works yet we have brofessors explaining it. Wait... I guess I'm a brofessor :/

 

[HairIsPossible]

You are right, I meant the HF on top of the head have a different gene expression.

I don't see how your proposed experiment is different. According to the study I mentioned, hair follicles taken from the top of the head of a balding man continued to miniaturize when transplanted into his forearm, while the HF taken from his donor region continued to grow when it was also transplanted to his forearm.

I can't remember whether the study used non balding men as controls to repeat the same procedure on them.

Also, FUE hair transplant show that even a man who's been bald for 20 years can have his donor follicles transplanted to his frontal scalp (with very little or no fat taken with them) and they still going to grow there.

Here is a copy of the study.

The three grafts that were tested were:

1. From non-balding occipital scalp
2. From bald follicles 1 cm in front of hairline
3. From thinning follicles 1 cm behind hairline

What is missing is a graft from a non-balding part from the vertex of the scalp.

The reason why this is crucially important is because under the "fat loss feedback theory" once the process of fat erosion reaches a critical point it will continue regardless of where the hair is on the body unless the original layer of fat is completely restored. The "gravity theory" which is the proposed explanation for why male pattern baldness occurs on the top of the head only explains why feedback cycle begins there. The feedback cycle is ultimately independent of gravity and this is obvious when looking at the hair loss of very old people, who will have diffuse hair loss everywhere on their bodies.

Just to clarify the feedback cycle for androgenic alopecia in males is:

• Erosion of the protective layer of subcutaneous fat begins
• Capillaries are stressed and less oxygen rich blood reaches the follicle
• The follicle enters into a hypoxic state and cannot grow fully
• In a hypoxic state testosterone is more frequently converted to DHT
• DHT acts to further erode the protective fatty tissue

And the cycle leads to less and less protective fatty tissue, less and less blood flow and a smaller and smaller follicle.

Furthermore, as Swoops' diagram demonstrates, the erosion of fatty tissue will compromise the depth to which the follicle can grow during its anagen stage. This is why even if you if you take the DHT factor out of the equation there will still be significant miniaturization as is the case with women and much older men.

Since women would not have the same "feedback cycle" and would instead be losing their hair due a significant initial erosion of fatty tissue or a gradual erosion of fatty tissue for reasons other than DHT, it would be interesting also to see if their thinning follicles continued to shrink after being grafted onto a different part of their body.

 

[Afro_Vacancy]

Since we're discussing crackpot theories,

I wonder if switching to one of those ~1300 calories/day diet could slow down male pattern baldness, by slowing down general metabolism. People think they might increase lifespan for that reason.

 

[Hairloss23]

Cold exposure is good for your body regardless of hair. And it definitely increases the brown fats in the scalp, no It won't stop hair loss if your follicles are sensitive to DHT but it is good for your body and can't harm your hair.
Idk why people are being so hostile he hasn't told anyone to quit their finasteride has he?