blood circultion in bald men study

[thin=depressed]

Transcutaneous PO2 of the scalp in male pattern baldness: a new piece to the puzzle.

Goldman BE, Fisher DM, Ringler SL.

Department of Plastic Surgery, Butterworth Hospital, Grand Rapids, Mich., USA.

Our study was designed to measure the transcutaneous PO2 of the scalp to determine if there was a relative microvascular insufficiency and associated tissue hypoxia in areas of hair loss in male pattern baldness. A controlled prospective study was performed at Butterworth Hospital, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Eighteen nonsmoking male volunteers aged 18 years and older were studied. Nine men had male pattern baldness (Juri degree II or III), and nine were controls (no male pattern baldness). Scalp temperature and transcutaneous PO2 were obtained at frontal and temporal sites in each subject. Peripheral circulation was assessed from postocclusive transcutaneous PO2 recovery time by means of maximum initial slope measurements. Statistical significance was assessed at p < 0.05. There was no significant difference in scalp temperature between male pattern baldness subjects and controls. Temporal scalp blood flow was significantly higher than frontal scalp blood flow in male pattern baldness subjects; however, there was no significant difference in controls. Transcutaneous PO2 was significantly lower in bald frontal scalp (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in hair-bearing temporal scalp (51.8 +/- 4.4 mmHg) in men with male pattern baldness. In controls, there was no significant difference in transcutaneous PO2 of frontal scalp (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg) and temporal scalp (61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg). Transcutaneous PO2 also was significantly lower in the frontal scalp of male pattern baldness subjects (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in either frontal or temporal scalp of controls (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg and 61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg, respectively). There is a relative microvascular insufficiency to regions of the scalp that lose hair in male pattern baldness. We have identified a previously unreported tissue hypoxia in bald scalp compared with hair-bearing scalp.

Online source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... ds=8628793

 

[S Foote.]

Thanks for posting these circulation related articles.


Both this, and the other article here, http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=16453 clearly demonstrate problems in the scalp circulation in male pattern baldness.

All this is fully in line with the Hydraulic theory!

S Foote.

 

[thin=depressed]

Thanks for posting these circulation related articles.


Both this, and the other article here, http://www.hairlosstalk.com/discussions ... hp?t=16453 clearly demonstrate problems in the scalp circulation in male pattern baldness.

All this is fully in line with the Hydraulic theory!

S Foote.

Your a hoot S foot. No problem man. This is a potent article.

 

[Greg1]

Ok, granted, it's a potent article but it sure would be AWESOME if it was translated into laymen's terms!

 

[Odelay]

Ok, granted, it's a potent article but it sure would be AWESOME if it was translated into laymen's terms!

They increased the blood flow to people with male pattern baldness and people without male pattern baldness in the typical male pattern baldness areas. They noticed that in the guys with male pattern baldness there was less blood flow in the veins in the areas where they were suffering from male pattern baldness.

All of it doesn't really mean a lot considering it was only tested on 18 people, but it's still entertaining/encouraging to read. :lol:

 

[Saulus]

good article

 

[Trichosan]

Laser cap + oxygen bottle! Somebody get on that!

Interesting article. But is it that the vasculature is lost because the follicles being lost due to genetic patterning are signalling circulation is no longer required? What if they did the tests on scalp that has had a high number of transplanted follicles - does revascularization occur? If not, it would seem the decreased blood flow doesn't matter. From a practical standpoint, scalp massage certainly wouldn't hurt and probably should be done daily at first signs of balding. Maybe add some Cialis to the Minoxidil too.

 

[justlol@you]

Laser cap + oxygen bottle! Somebody get on that!

Interesting article. But is it that the vasculature is lost because the follicles being lost due to genetic patterning are signalling circulation is no longer required? What if they did the tests on scalp that has had a high number of transplanted follicles - does revascularization occur? If not, it would seem the decreased blood flow doesn't matter. From a practical standpoint, scalp massage certainly wouldn't hurt and probably should be done daily at first signs of balding. Maybe add some Cialis to the Minoxidil too.

no study that im aware of

But no one seems to even stop to consider that in transplantation, there is massive wounding going on. AFAIK theres never even been an investigation into the possible role of wounding in hair transplant results. Sometiems the end results seem quite a bit more impressive than the number of transplanted follicles would suggest, as well as arrest of further hair loss temporarily even in men who opt not to use finasteride.

 

[S Foote.]

There have been assumptions made about the results of transplantation, that dont match the actual results of the various procedures tried out over the years. What we have now learned about tissue engineering in-vivo, and the scaffold principle, answers the questions far better than the traditional thinking has ever done.

I think everyone would agree that the Holy Grail of hair loss treatment, is to induce the existing miniaturised follicles to significantly re-enlarge, and produce cosmeticaly acceptable hair growth. So far there is only one study that has demonstrated this with actual Human male pattern baldness follicles. https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(02)61499-9/pdf

This study has been discussed before on this forum. One thing is for sure here, this study clearly demonstrates that androgens are not directly preventing male pattern baldness follicles from re-enlarging.

My article that questions scientists about the current research, has just been published in Tissue Science and Engineering. Foote, J Tissue Sci Eng 2018, 9:1 DOI: 10.4172/2157-7552.1000217 I have attached this here. This article has a link to my discussion paper, that argues the issues with the traditional assumptions in hair transplantation.

 

[TONSofBODYHAIR]

There have been assumptions made about the results of transplantation, that dont match the actual results of the various procedures tried out over the years. What we have now learned about tissue engineering in-vivo, and the scaffold principle, answers the questions far better than the traditional thinking has ever done.

I think everyone would agree that the Holy Grail of hair loss treatment, is to induce the existing miniaturised follicles to significantly re-enlarge, and produce cosmeticaly acceptable hair growth. So far there is only one study that has demonstrated this with actual Human male pattern baldness follicles. https://www.jaad.org/article/S0190-9622(02)61499-9/pdf

This study has been discussed before on this forum. One thing is for sure here, this study clearly demonstrates that androgens are not directly preventing male pattern baldness follicles from re-enlarging.

My article that questions scientists about the current research, has just been published in Tissue Science and Engineering. Foote, J Tissue Sci Eng 2018, 9:1 DOI: 10.4172/2157-7552.1000217 I have attached this here. This article has a link to my discussion paper, that argues the issues with the traditional assumptions in hair transplantation.

So what treatment except finasteride would you say is most efficient, dermarolling?

 

[S Foote.]

So what treatment except finasteride would you say is most efficient, dermarolling?

I would not recommend derma rolling, as I think the longer term effects will make hair follicle enlargement even more difficult by increasing local scar tissue (fibrosis).

The fact that wounding does make some initial difference, supports the role of spatial growth controls in hair follicle miniaturisation. This control is relaxed slightly when the local tissue is wounded.
http://phys.org/news/2014-04-room-tissue-growth-cell-response.html

A central role of spatial growth controls is also supported by the effect of manipulating WNT's, as this pathway is also implicated in spatial growth controls.
https://www.molbiolcell.org/doi/full/10.1091/mbc.e15-12-0854
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/contact-inhibition (wnt)

But this is a very dangerous thing to do because of the cancer risk. There is only ever going to be one way to significantly increase hair follicle size in male pattern baldness. That is to reduce the external tissue pressure, that causes the early onset of spatial controls stopping the normal enlargement of the follicles. All the treatments that show some increase in follicle size, all have this effect to some degree. The trick will be to do this better.

I would recommend a massage routine rather than derma rolling, as this both helps reduce the tissue pressure, and breaks down the fibrotic tissue around the follicles. I cannot really recommend any other treatments other than "the big three" at this time. Scientists need to research the pressure issue.

 

[justlol@you]

I would not recommend derma rolling, as I think the longer term effects will make hair follicle enlargement even more difficult by increasing local scar tissue (fibrosis).

i thought the whole selling point of dermabrasion, microneedling, dermarolling/needling/wounding et al was to REDUCE scarring and fibrosis.

 

[Cody1212]

Transcutaneous PO2 of the scalp in male pattern baldness: a new piece to the puzzle.

Goldman BE, Fisher DM, Ringler SL.

Department of Plastic Surgery, Butterworth Hospital, Grand Rapids, Mich., USA.

Our study was designed to measure the transcutaneous PO2 of the scalp to determine if there was a relative microvascular insufficiency and associated tissue hypoxia in areas of hair loss in male pattern baldness. A controlled prospective study was performed at Butterworth Hospital, Grand Rapids, Michigan. Eighteen nonsmoking male volunteers aged 18 years and older were studied. Nine men had male pattern baldness (Juri degree II or III), and nine were controls (no male pattern baldness). Scalp temperature and transcutaneous PO2 were obtained at frontal and temporal sites in each subject. Peripheral circulation was assessed from postocclusive transcutaneous PO2 recovery time by means of maximum initial slope measurements. Statistical significance was assessed at p < 0.05. There was no significant difference in scalp temperature between male pattern baldness subjects and controls. Temporal scalp blood flow was significantly higher than frontal scalp blood flow in male pattern baldness subjects; however, there was no significant difference in controls. Transcutaneous PO2 was significantly lower in bald frontal scalp (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in hair-bearing temporal scalp (51.8 +/- 4.4 mmHg) in men with male pattern baldness. In controls, there was no significant difference in transcutaneous PO2 of frontal scalp (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg) and temporal scalp (61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg). Transcutaneous PO2 also was significantly lower in the frontal scalp of male pattern baldness subjects (32.2 +/- 2.0 mmHg) than in either frontal or temporal scalp of controls (53.9 +/- 3.5 mmHg and 61.4 +/- 2.7 mmHg, respectively). There is a relative microvascular insufficiency to regions of the scalp that lose hair in male pattern baldness. We have identified a previously unreported tissue hypoxia in bald scalp compared with hair-bearing scalp.

Online source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... ds=8628793

Botox.

 

[Ziggyz123]

How do you explain scalp ligation then? Because that worked too

 

[Retinoid]

I would not recommend derma rolling, as I think the longer term effects will make hair follicle enlargement even more difficult by increasing local scar tissue (fibrosis).

The fact that wounding does make some initial difference, supports the role of spatial growth controls in hair follicle miniaturisation. This control is relaxed slightly when the local tissue is wounded.
http://phys.org/news/2014-04-room-tissue-growth-cell-response.html

A central role of spatial growth controls is also supported by the effect of manipulating WNT's, as this pathway is also implicated in spatial growth controls.
https://www.molbiolcell.org/doi/full/10.1091/mbc.e15-12-0854
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/contact-inhibition (wnt)

But this is a very dangerous thing to do because of the cancer risk. There is only ever going to be one way to significantly increase hair follicle size in male pattern baldness. That is to reduce the external tissue pressure, that causes the early onset of spatial controls stopping the normal enlargement of the follicles. All the treatments that show some increase in follicle size, all have this effect to some degree. The trick will be to do this better.

I would recommend a massage routine rather than derma rolling, as this both helps reduce the tissue pressure, and breaks down the fibrotic tissue around the follicles. I cannot really recommend any other treatments other than "the big three" at this time. Scientists need to research the pressure issue.

Dermarolling does not cut deeply to cause fibrosis. Fibrosis in the scalp is most likely related to lack of hair and the related fat and not the other way around (fibrosis causing the miniaturization).

 

[abcdefg]

What happens if you have hypoxia or reduced blood flow to chest hair/facial hair? Does it die off like head hair?
How different is body hair compared to head hair are there a lot of differences?

 

[S Foote.]

i thought the whole selling point of dermabrasion, microneedling, dermarolling/needling/wounding et al was to REDUCE scarring and fibrosis.

Dermabrasion may well reduce surface scar tissue, but I would like to know how any kind of penetrating needle wound can reduce tissue fibroses around the follicles?

 

[S Foote.]

How do you explain scalp ligation then? Because that worked too

That's a very good and relevant question, and I talk about this paradox in my discussion article here.
https://www.academia.edu/17570665/A...nt_Hair_Research_and_an_Overlooked_Connection.

There is a crucial difference in the way the hypoxia is created in the tissue here. In high tissue fluid pressures as indicated in the bald scalp. The reduced fluid turnover (circulation) causes the hypoxia. Hypoxia is recognised in tissue edema. In the ligature study, the reduced blood feed to the scalp caused the hypoxia. This also reduces the tissue fluid pressures.

This fits very well here, increased fluid pressure = less hair growth, reduced fluid pressure = increased hair growth.

 

[Trichosan]

@S Foote., what is your opinion about the dermal adipose layer being essential to follicle health? I'm of the opinion that it is diminished in bald scalp compared to unafflicted skin.

 

[S Foote.]

Dermarolling does not cut deeply to cause fibrosis. Fibrosis in the scalp is most likely related to lack of hair and the related fat and not the other way around (fibrosis causing the miniaturization).

I do not say that miniaturisation is caused by the fibrosis, this just makes any attempt to re-enlarge the follicles a lot harder, so must be avoided.

I am saying that the miniaturisation is caused by the increased fluid pressure around the follicles, creating the early onset of the normal spatial controls on the size of any tissue growth in-vivo. This same increased fluid pressure (edema) explains all the other scalp conditions as well. The known fibroses, immunology changes, and increased sweating capacity are all known as recognised effects of tissue edema.