Anti finasteride Crowd, This Is Your Future!

[Derelict]

Sure, same with "millions take the drug with no noticeable side effects"

You always come across as very angry in your posts, i get that finasteride gave you sides and you want to talk about it and warn others but your posts go way further than that and you call people delusional and copers for taking the drug, i really don't understand it. If someone is taking finasteride or dutasteride with no sides or ones they can tolerate then what is the point in calling them delusional and copers because of it?

 

[StevenGerrard]

Sure, same with "millions take the drug with no noticeable side effects"

you need a 4 week ban in order to chill out and stop with the verbal diarrhea

where are the mods at?!

 

[Incinerate]

This thread sucks. There is no point in doing this. OP, you are pathetic. And im not anti or pro fina.

 

[StevenGerrard]

This thread sucks. There is no point in doing this. OP, you are pathetic. And im not anti or pro fina.

there is nothing honorable about wearing a hair piece

@Pigeon you're a conspiracy theorist who insists on spreading fake news in the hopes that it will scare people into not seeking treatment. I'm onto your scams

 

[INT]

Sure, same with "millions take the drug with no noticeable side effects"

Well no... At least there are studies backing this up, and not all of them are funded by Merck. Not saying that these studies are perfect but at least that 'opinion' has more validity to it.

 

[HLV]

Lol so now I'm a "conspiracy theorist". Your ridiculous coping is very amusing. I didn't know that posting articles and studies makes you a "conspiracy theorist" though.

But princess, please do continue your hormonal treament, every pill you eat is a victory for me.

Pigeon i think for your opinion to have more validation you need proper studies to support the belief that most people experience severe side effects.

I’m not saying they do or don’t but Polls on forums about whether people experienced side effects or not just don’t hold any weight. Again not agreeing or disageeing with you.

HLV

 

[HLV]

Look like I said many times, we need more unbiased long term studies. But yes I do believe that oral AA's will cause side effects in the long term. And no polls aren't studies but you can't deny there isn't a clear indication that side effects are much more common than Merck claims.

Well I mean, if If the clear indication you mean is the people posting on forums then in my opinion no. They may or may not be telling the truth but obviously it’s not an accurate or fully trustworthy source of information.

I don’t actually know if the side effects are more than they claim as a fact, Although I’ve never doubted that for a few individuals they are very real and physical.

HLV

 

[OldnBald]

My friend, 3 months is nothing. Let us know after 2 years of usage.

Always funny to read about guys who just hopped on fina/duta "bu..bu..I don't notice any side effects" Lmfao, no sh*t I didn't too or not any that really concerned me since I was only focussing if it had effects on my hair. It's a slow poison.

And lold at "millions take the drug with no noticeable side effects" stop lying. Most probably learn to live with the side effects at best.

I've done extensive research on the subject, and do the same before taking anything. I'm not just some yokal taking drugs willy nilly.

Second- actually 3 months is a long time when speaking of side effects from all of the literary research we have. Not to mention, all of the personal anecdotal inquiries I've done as well. Most people who experience side effects get them within the first couple of weeks. And this would make sense as the drug starts working immediately.

As for the "lmao" nonsense, again, I am very cognizant of any changes that might be going on my body, and I haven't. This is just being honest, not even thinned ejaculate- which is the most common symptom. Maybe I'm fortunate, but more likely I'm part of the norm, and you're just unfortunate.

And 3rd- no. Me saying millions have taken the drug without noticeable side effects would be somewhat of conjecture on my part, but it wouldn't go against the grain. When considering how many people have taken the drug, and then considering studies done and the percentage of which whom report side effects, my statement would line up, quite easily. Yours however ("lying" "Most probably learn to live with the side effects at best"), would not.

Third, and just a personal note, stop with the absurd insults. It comes off as pathetic really. you're already reaching on an extreme level with all this "poison" talk, but saying "balding idiots" and the like is just, sad. Maybe your side effects were all in your head, and maybe they weren't, but constantly on this site saying the same things over n over really does sound like sour grapes and jealously over the fact that a lot of people are getting great results from it, and you're stuck behind.

 

[StevenGerrard]

You're projecting again. I just don't like the fear mongering. I went bald because I came on these forums years ago knowing nothing about hair loss treatments, and the most vocal people were the fear mongers. It scared me into not using a drug that would have saved my hair. Those of us who know finasteride works and is generally safe need to be vocal too for the sake of those of newcomers so they don't suffer the same fate that I did.

ugh.. you just described my situation down to a T

sucks knowing I'm gonna need a pricey expensive hair transplant -- which could have been avoided had I started finasteride sooner (a medication that costs close to nothing)

 

[StevenGerrard]

I knew I was right when I said "ratsnest", your response was even more emotional than usual.

Btw, don't despair go to ASMED in Turkey he will fix you up buddy.

I would never travel to a foreign country for that, I'm going to do it locally and lack of temples + temple points is nowhere close to having a "ratsnest"

 

[Cowboys fan]

A lot of the ED side effects are mental, it has been noted that people on much more severe regiment don’t have the same problem

I think most of us know if our dicks work or not I don't believe it's mental

 

[HLV]

It's a fact that a significant number of erectile dysfunction cases are psychological not physiological. Often times people can't get or maintain erections because of what's in their head. When you tell someone that taking this pill is going to make it difficult for them to get erections, that very easily translates into them having trouble getting erections just because of the anxiety that they won't be able to. You may know if your dick works or not, but you aren't self aware enough to know that it's your own anxiety causing it, and not the drug.

To be fair Pegasus, sometimes the cause for the ED is purely physical. Yes the mind plays a significant role in an erection, no one can deny that, at the same time however, some cases of ED caused by drugs are purely physical.

HLV

 

[HLV]

That's right, and I didn't claim otherwise. I'd argue the instances that are physically caused by the drug are more in line with what we see in the trials where people aren't told to expect ED in advance. You also have to deduct the number of people who got sexual side effects in the control group, as you can assume the same number in both groups developed the symptoms due to unrelated causes. So what you're left with is less than 2% of users legitimately getting sexual side effects from the drug. I think that's a lot closer to reality than the fear mongering that takes place on the forums. Nearly 4% will get legitimate sexual side effects over the course of a year of treatment. Half will be attributable to the drug, the other half will be completely unrelated. All will be blamed on the drug. Throw in the cases that are purely psychological because people are so scared it will happen when they see the fear mongering, and then add in the tendency of people without problems not to post while those with problems are very vocal, and you have what seems like a widespread phenomena when it is really quite limited.

Yes, the problem is separating those with mental ED and those with actual physical ED.

I have no doubt a lot of the individuals claiming side effects from Finasteride 1MG are experiencing mental side effects, however I do sympathise for those that are experiencing complete physical ED but are not taken seriously and thrown into the same group.

HLV

 

[OldnBald]

Okay you did extensive research and you think it's safe now right? Problem is the sources of your research are untrustworthy, I'm sure you know about Vioxx and the recent articles about Merck covering up data from fina right?

Btw, here's a guy just like you who also did his "research" he thought just like you, only a minority or in his case only 1% could experience side effects. Here's the thread, read the opening post https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=158889153 ... you know where he is now 5 years later? Propeciahelp. He was just like you.

And lol if you think 3 months is a long period. You do know and realize you're taking a hormone treatment right? Most people experience side effects later on, I didn't notice any serious one my first year of usage.

Again, the official studies are crap. But you belong to the group who's young, balding and desperate so I'm sad to say you will have to learn the hard way. (and don't take that as an insult, I was like you too)

Btw, you do know we're in a troll thread right? And yes I stand by my statement, fina is poison. Sorry if that hurts your feelings. And take what you want, I'm not here to convince you.

This is a horrible post.

Take this by paragraph

1- I have done proper research, and I am taking known risks, albeit very minor ones. No drug is taken without a risk, whether it's minor or major, it is what it is. Of course I know about the court document sealing. I'm assuming you know very little about the male hormone system, how it works, and how, in the extremely rare event that someone has prolonged side effects, to reverse them.

I didn't even read it. Waste of time. You're saying he was just like me? How could you possibly know that....moving on to the next non point.

No. 3 months is a long time (in terms of seeing side effects, most see them early) going by any scientific study information available, as well as my own anecdotal information by people I know, as well as from dermatologist anecdotal information by their patients. You finding a guy and posting a thread is not a scientific study. And you don't have one to refute this claim. Do I know it's blocking the 5AR enzyme, which in turn is stopping the conversion of test to dht, and that my test and estrogen levels are up slightly as a result? No, that's the first I've heard of it. Maybe I should start looking it up on the guugel.

The official studies are not crap. The statement in and of itself is ridiculous. Even if the studies were downplayed by half, most people would still be just fine on finasteride, to the tune of 95+%. Further, I've seen you cite small, obscure studies that nobody would deem reputable, yet you call extensive, highly funded studies with thousands of men "crap". And again, you're wrong. I'm not young. Not in the sense that I'd be younger than you, nor naive to virtually anything you are accusing. Desperate you say? Not really. I've been dealing with this for a long time, and at 34, was the first time I applied minoxidil, and at 36, finasteride. I could've done it a lot sooner if I were this desperate panick-stricken young man you somehow claim me to be haha. You also say I will "have to learn the hard way", as if it were a guarantee haha. Come on man, millions of men take the drug, if it were a certainty to be fucked after even 2 years, this drug would've went down long ago. So absurd.

Finally, yes I know where we are typing. And no, my feelings aren't hurt. Why would they be.


Anyway, even if someone was a borderline case, and it threw their hormones into sub-optimal levels, and they were experiencing side effects, which is possible, just stop taking the drug. And then, if that person were to be part of this even smaller % of ppl who have persistent sides due to hormonal levels being low (typically), then there are drugs to counteract that. It's really not hard to do in fact. It may not be a perfect solution, but it's there.

Bottom line is any drug to be taken daily is going to have risks and rewards, you have to weigh them yourself and make a the decision that's right for you. It's just how it works. And if I end up getting side effects (at this point the chances are extremely slim), well, I made the decision to take the drug knowing full well what can possibly happen, and I've nobody to blame but myself.

 

[OldnBald]

@OldnBald Oh how many guys I've seen that were convinced just like you that fina is so safe and my friend you naivity is showing when you place such trust in the pharma industry and your clear lack of understanding of the endocrine system. Of course it's all whishful thinking from you part because you're balding and desperate. Btw, more and more dermatologists are not prescribing fina anymore for hairloss, since it's not worth the risks.

I'll repost this again, I suggest you read it. If you still trust big pharma after this then you are beyond naive..

This is a recent article:

A REUTERS SERIES

Court let Merck hide secrets about a popular drug’s risks

Lawsuits claim baldness drug Propecia causes sexual problems and depression. The judge sealed evidence – uncovered by Reuters – suggesting the maker downplayed the side effects. A widow wants the truth out.


-----
History of Merck:

Approval by the FDA should mean that the substance in question is reasonably safe for use in the wider population. Sadly, despite FDA approval, many drugs have had to be subsequently withdrawn from the market after wider use showed severe consequences which were not adequately assessed or communicated by the very institution that was supposed to protect the public from such outcomes. Take another Merck (makers of propecia) drug, Vioxx, which was approved by the FDA. Withdrawn from the market after five years, it caused approximately 100000 heart attacks and thousands of deaths. The revelations that resulted from the ensuing scrutiny offer a chilling insight into the machinations of a pharmaceutical company that nakedly prized its profit margin above its duty not to harm its consumers. It also exposed the FDA’s rank inadequacies in preventing such a tragedy from happening in the first place. https://www.ucsusa.org/manipulating-...out-drug-vioxx

“Merck Manipulated the Science about the Drug Vioxx”
Scientists from the pharmaceutical giant Merck skewed the results of clinical trials in favor of the arthritis drug, Vioxx, to hide evidence that the drug increased patients’ risk of heart attack.

Tragically, Merck’s manipulation of its data—and the FDA’s resulting approval of Vioxx in 1999—led to thousands of avoidable premature deaths and 100,000 heart attacks.?Dr. David Graham, the Associate Director for Science and Medicine in FDA’s Office of Drug Safety, testified in 2004 before the Senate Finance Committee that the FDA's failure to recall Vioxx earlier had resulted in as many as 55,000 premature deaths from heart attacks and stroke, calling it the equivalent of allowing "two to four jumbo jetliners" to crash every week for five years. Even years after discontinuing use of the drug, patients who have taken Vioxx continue to experience complications. https://www.newscientist.com/article...aths-cover-up/

“Drug giant Merck accused of deaths cover-up”
When a study suggested that Vioxx was more dangerous than a rival drug, for example, the company is alleged to have decided not to publish the results or properly inform the FDA.

Egilman says the documents also contain an email in which a Merck employee tells a co-worker that “this is a very serious result and you will hardly be surprised by the idea of keeping this VERY TIGHT for the moment”. https://www.news.com.au/news/drug-c...6c8559abf?sv=1f029b17d33bdbde184dbc4c4fed7126

“Vioxx maker Merck and Co drew up doctor hit list”
An international drug company made a hit list of doctors who had to be “neutralised” or discredited because they criticised the anti-arthritis drug the pharmaceutical giant produced.

The email, which came out in the Federal Court in Melbourne yesterday as part of a class action against the drug company, included the words "neutralise", "neutralised" or "discredit" against some of the doctors' names.

"We may need to seek them out and destroy them where they live," a Merck employee wrote, according to an email excerpt read to the court by Julian Burnside QC, acting for the plaintiff.
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/09/b...s/09merck.html
“Merck Agrees to Settle Vioxx Suits for $4.85 Billion”
Three years after withdrawing its pain medication Vioxx from the market, Merck has agreed to pay $4.85 billion to settle 27,000 lawsuits by people who claim they or their family members suffered injury or died after taking the drug, according to two lawyers with direct knowledge of the matter. https://www.finance.senate.gov/imo/m...1804dgtest.pdf

But enough has been said about all this.

So please take your hormone treatment, you will learn sooner or later.

I've already read this before.

You said the studies are "crap". I don't think so. I wouldn't say that I completely trust them to be 100% accurate, but I wouldn't say they are rubbish. There's a difference.

I've talked too many people who ask have taken the drug before me, and are still on it- none have side effects.

I've spoken with 3 separate dermatologists, on separate appointments, at three different companies- all recommended finasteride. All said it might give you watery semen, but that's about all they ever heard. This is coming from men that prescribe the drug thousands of times over the years, and we're completely comfortable with prescribing it again. One was taking it at the time.

Now of course this and all of the literary studies I've done, I seem to be sufficient in determining whether or not to take finasteride. It's all you can do.

So I think I'm out of the woods completely? No. The drugs only been on the market for less than thirty years. A long term lack of dht may in fact affect my long health. It might. The chances are low, but it's possible. Nobody knows yet with a newish drug. But like I said, all signs point to it being a relatively safe drug, and one of the more safe drug in general in the lexicon if pharmaceuticals. So I made the decision.

It doesn't have to be- finasteride is the devil or you're an idiot!
I think you know my view to be right.

 

[OldnBald]

@OldnBald I think you understimate the dangerous reality of finasteride. You do know we're talking about long term hormonal treatment right? This is not aspirin you're taking. (If you really think 3 months is enough you are very mistaken, it took 1 year to really notice to serious side effects I had from fina)

The risks are getting downplayed very hard imo. Blocking one if not the most important male hormone for a long time can and will cause side effects, you do know a decrease in hairloss is nothing more than a side effect right? The drug you're taking was developed for prostate enlargement originally.

And I still stand by my statement that the official studies of Merck are crap. Why? Because we already know they manipulated results before, the tens of thousands reports of men being damaged and in many cases irreversibly. The new evidence and studies about fina being dangerous on many other fronts too (for example increased risk of diabetes) and of course from personal experience. And I'm not even talking about polls on hairloss forums with 50%+ stating they have sexual side effects on fina. The official 3% number from Merck is a complete lie.

And I'm sure you studied it just like so many other guys who still got side effects like they guy I posted about, he was just like you and believed only a minority could get sides, 5 years later he's on propeciahelp.

Btw, SSRI's (prozac, xanax,...) are on the market much longer than anti androgens like fina/duta. And only this year has europe officialy recognized post SSRI syndrome as an official medical condition. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...xual-dysfunction-recognized-medical-condition

It takes time, but I'm certain the same will happen to fina. And many, many dermatologists and doctors acknowledge that fina is much more dangerous than the Merck studies suggest, hence more and more not willing to prescribe it anymore, especially for hairloss.

Most men learn to live with the side effects though, they take some v****/cialis and soldier through it. Imo it's simple, you will get side effects eventually (if not, your hairloss will probably not stop either btw) the question is, can you live with it?

I am going to disagree. I made a "psa for anybody considering finasteride" thread four or five days ago. That's in line with what I think.