American Indian, Rain forest people, DHT blocker diet?

[bigentries]

Consider this is only an hypothesis of mine

I think it all depends on the protein intake

Modern Western Society is known for their high protein diet compared to other cultures.
I think there is a correlation with a higher protein intake diet and an increase in testosterone levels. Same thing why cultures that have adopted the Western diet have encountered the good benefits of higher testosterone levels (grow bigger, more muscle) and the bad things (higher risk of heart diseases, balding)

 

[123000123]

Why not just take finasteride, as it is proven to inhibit DHT

 

[bigentries]

Consider this is only an hypothesis of mine

I think it all depends on the protein intake

Modern Western Society is known for their high protein diet compared to other cultures.
I think there is a correlation with a higher protein intake diet and an increase in testosterone levels. Same thing why cultures that have adopted the Western diet have encountered the good benefits of higher testosterone levels (grow bigger, more muscle) and the bad things (higher risk of heart diseases, balding)

Could be! Talk to me about eskimos and their diet?

Inuits are the proverbial exception
Same thing with skin color and latitude, they are the exception to the rule and scientists need to make excuses as to why they are not white

I would venture to say that their old custom of eating raw meat has made it difficult to assimilate all the protein in their food

There was an article I read a few days ago that said that Inuits are starting to change their diets dramatically and obesity is already a concern. Too lazy to find it

 

[dabritz]

Kicking this around in a different thread (thank you dabritz)!

http://www.baldingblog.com/2006/01/05/t ... nd-asians/



January 5 2006, 1:52 pm PT | Posted in: Tidbits

A few times each month, I will post some random hair-related information, which I’m calling “tidbitsâ€. I spend hours each day writing responses to questions I receive on this blog, so it is a nice change of pace. For example…


The American Indian (or Native American, if you prefer) has no genetic balding if their ancestry is from the Alaskan Bridge. American Indians that came to North America from Central America can have genetic balding. There has been no explanation why the American Indian does not have genetic balding, making him unique amongst all men (except those born with genetic defects in the DHT making enzyme or those who eat large amounts of DHT blockers in their diets, a group of primative people from the Central American rain forest).

The observation that men from Asia, India, or China have less balding is certainly not a reality today where the wig business is thriving. A theory put forward by Dr. Masumi Inaba in his 1996 book “Androgenetic Alopecia†claimed that there was more baldness in the post WWII Japanese men than in the earlier generation to which he belonged. I think that he attributed this to dietary change and in particular, to more saturated fat in the Japanese diet. The same theory, if true, could apply to Indians, who have only a small meat intake back in India (strict Hindus eat no meat at all). Dr. Inaba’s theory never gained any credence then or since, but history shows that if his theories are proven correct, he would not be the first scientist to be proven right a decade or more after his death.

History points to insights as we get further away from the facts as we see them. Dr John Snow back in the mid 19th century proclaimed that Cholera came from contaminated water while most other “experts †believe it was transmitted by bad smell (the “miasmaâ€). The entire London sewerage system was designed to get rid of the stench that permeated the city every summer (and coincided with cholera outbreaks) . The sewerage system was an engineering marvel with the worlds largest pumps and miles of brick lined tunnels. It got rid of the smell and coincidentally got rid of the source of water contamination and cholera became very rare. The cholera organism and its lethal effects were not discoved until many years after Snow was dead and buried. (This last paragraph was written by Dr. Richard Shiell of Sydney Australia)

What do you think? What is the DHT blocking diet? Do those primal people in the rain forest have the balding gene and their diet prevents the expression?What is more interesting, that American Indians do not have balding in their genetics or that Dr. Rassman hints at diet as a possible cause for male pattern baldness (at least at something obvious we may have inadvertantly overlooked due to "conventional wisdom")?

If you except the theory of evolution, then you would understand that it is said that Native American people are the closest of our own species in similarity to Neanderthals and and in turn to Primates. Primates obviously have hair all over their bodies yet admittedly some of them do still lose their hair, however how many monkeys/apes/primates do you know of that live in extreme cold conditions such as Alaska?? Exactly very few to none, with the exception to a type of baboon that lives in frigid conditions somewhere in Japan(forget the species name) And guess what that species of ape doesn't lose it's hair. Why?? Because in my opinion they simply can't afford to lose their hair in order to keep their heads warm in the extreme cold. Don't think I need to explain to you that monkeys/apes/primates do not dress themselves for the cold.

Now getting back to Native Americans, if you except like our good friend finasteride stated before that true native americans roots lie in the Alaska region then it would make sense that such a close relative to our primate cousins would too hold a gene that prevented them from losing their hair in order to keep their heads warm.

Let the debate begin.....

 

[dabritz]

Now getting back to Native Americans, if you except like our good friend finasteride stated before that true native americans roots lie in the Alaska region then it would make sense that such a close relative to our primate cousins would too hold a gene that prevented them from losing their hair in order to keep their heads warm.

Let the debate begin.....

I never said that.

Ok I thought you had posted a link to an article that said that or had quoted someone else who had said that. But it was actually the OP posting a link in relation to the balding blog. Either way it would be interesting to know the reason behind the non balding community that is the Native Americans.

 

[Thom]

I have Native American in me but unfortunately that good hair gene skipped me I suppose.

I went to a school that was made up of primarily Native American kids (I was the minority being white) and I am still friends with a bunch of them. They all have worse diets than I do and drink far more than I do and don't show the slightest signs of balding. It seriously is just the genetics.

Of course they can't grow facial hair either.

 

[freakout]

I don't know if anything can be made out of this:

A researcher in the UK experimented with the diet of inmates by lowering the meat intake and increasing veggies.

Results were lower incidence of violence inside the prison.

And then I've read a post somewhere which I can't verify that prison inmates are less likely affected by male pattern baldness.

 

[armandein]

I have Native American in me but unfortunately that good hair gene skipped me I suppose.

I went to a school that was made up of primarily Native American kids (I was the minority being white) and I am still friends with a bunch of them. They all have worse diets than I do and drink far more than I do and don't show the slightest signs of balding. It seriously is just the genetics.

Of course they can't grow facial hair either.

Hi Thom
Have you any difference in scalp hair lenght between you and the other Native Americans without male pattern baldness?
TIA

 

[freakout]

Diet alone cannot account for the hair loss patterns.

 

[Thom]

I have Native American in me but unfortunately that good hair gene skipped me I suppose.

I went to a school that was made up of primarily Native American kids (I was the minority being white) and I am still friends with a bunch of them. They all have worse diets than I do and drink far more than I do and don't show the slightest signs of balding. It seriously is just the genetics.

Of course they can't grow facial hair either.

Hi Thom
Have you any difference in scalp hair lenght between you and the other Native Americans without male pattern baldness?
TIA

I'm not sure, my hair was always very thick and straight but so was my Dad's and Grandpa's and they have no Native American whatsoever. That side is just English, German, and Welsh from what I know.

My mother's side is English, Scottish, and Native American though but, with everyone else, they must have got the good Native American hair gene because no one on that side has even thinned. Sucks!

 

[Thom]

Diet alone cannot account for the hair loss patterns.

:agree:

As do I! By that theory, as much as my Native American friends eat junk food and as much alcohol as they drink, they should at least be Norwood 4s by now!

but not a one of them even has a "mature" hairline." :/

 

[freakout]

Genes alone could not account for male baldness

AR "Bald" gene:
1) 70-80% of balding men have it
2) 40-50% of balding men DON'T have it
3) 20-30% of NONE bald men have it

2 and 3 account for a mystery. Hair loss researchers are missing something in the 'androgenetic' equation that may prevent male pattern baldness for ALL men.

The truth about conventional genetics research? It blew up when the results of the Human Genome Project came out.

Conclusion: Current approach in genetics research does not make any sense.

 

[freakout]

[quote="idontwanttobebalding]It is clear that DNA does not control biology, and that information can be transmitted to descendants in ways other than through the base sequence of DNA.[/quote]
AGREED!! :agree: LIFE CONTROLS BIOLOGY!
Conventional geneticists don't agree with epigenetics. I'm speculating that they'd lose their grants the moment they do.

 

[Bryan]

If you except the theory of evolution, then you would understand that it is said that Native American people are the closest of our own species in similarity to Neanderthals and and in turn to Primates. Primates obviously have hair all over their bodies yet admittedly some of them do still lose their hair, however how many monkeys/apes/primates do you know of that live in extreme cold conditions such as Alaska?? Exactly very few to none, with the exception to a type of baboon that lives in frigid conditions somewhere in Japan(forget the species name) And guess what that species of ape doesn't lose it's hair. Why?? Because in my opinion they simply can't afford to lose their hair in order to keep their heads warm in the extreme cold. Don't think I need to explain to you that monkeys/apes/primates do not dress themselves for the cold.

Perhaps more accurately, the "brain cooling" theory for the evolution of balding may explain the lack of that specific evolution in that species of Japanese monkey.

 

[armandein]

Human hair are not peas

There is more than two hundreds genes regulating the hair cycle. Also epigenetic factors are important to define the hair.
“Studies of protein synthesis reveal that epigenetic factors can create 2000 or more variations of proteins from the same gene blueprint.â€￾
I agree with Freakout:
“Diet alone cannot account for the hair loss patterns.â€￾
and
“Genes alone could not account for male baldnessâ€￾

On the other hand, the “brain coolingâ€￾ theory could explain the higher growth of scalp hairs. It is necessary obtain a good insulation of brain, but not only in cold but hot climates.
By the way, why the asynchronicity of human scalp hairs regarding evolution?
I think that it is a very important key comparable to the naked Ape , naked yes, but not bald Any ideas?

 

[armandein]

¿How many genes are involved in these mediators of hair cycle?

http://physrev.physiology.org/content/8 ... nsion.html

This is a good sumary of Paus and Stenn
http://physrev.physiology.org/content/81/1/449.long

Here the 30 genes upregulated with DHT,
The top 30 upregulated genes in balding dermal papilla cells in response to 100 nM DHT determined by microarray hybridization.


Gene Genebank ID Fold increase

tyrosyl-tRNA synthetase (YARS) NM_003680 5.07

dickkopf homolog 1 (DKK1) NM_012242 4.64

serum/glucocorticoid regulated kinase (SGK) NM_005627 4.53

a disintegrin-like and metalloprotease (ADAMTS5) NM_007038 3.75

solute carrier family 19 (SLC19A2) NM_006996 3.31

solute carrier family 2 (SLC2A3) NM_006931 2.99

H2A histone family, member Z (H2AFZ) NM_002106 2.86

RING1 and YY1 binding protein (RYBP) NM_012234 2.75

nuclear receptor coactivator 3 (NCOA3) NM_181659 2.63

adenosylmethionine decarboxylase 1 (AMD1) NM_001634 2.46

LPS-induced TNF-alpha factor (LITAF) NM_004862 2.36

ornithine decarboxylase 1 (ODC1) NM_002539 2.34

myeloid cell leukemia sequence 1 (MCL1) NM_182763 2.32

ATPase family homolog up-regulated in senescence cells (AFURS1) NM_024524 2.31

ADP-ribosylation factor-like 4C (ARL4C) NM_005737 2.3

cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitor 1A (p21) (CDKN1A) NM_000389 2.3

aldo-keto reductase family 1, member C1 (AKR1C1) NM_001353 2.29

DEAD (Asp-Glu-Ala-Asp) box polypeptide 5 (DDX5) NM_004396 2.27

fibroblast growth factor 7 (FGF7) NM_002009 2.26

solute carrier family 3 (SLC3A2) NM_002394 2.22

VAMP-associated membrane protein B (VA0AP) NM_003574 2.1

HSPC048 protein (HSPC048) NM_014148 2.09

syndecan binding protein (syntenin) (SDCBP) NM_005625 2.08

matrix metalloproteinase 3 (MMP3) NM_002422 2.08

cyclin-dependent kinase inhibitor 1A (p21) (CDKN1A) NM_078467 2.07

Kruppel-like factor 10 (KLF10) NM_005655 2.02

heme oxygenase (decycling) 1 (HMOX1) NM_002133 2.02

UDP-glucose ceramide glucosyltransferase (UGCG) NM_003358 2.01

solute carrier family 7 (SLC7A5) NM_003486 1.99

transforming growth factor, beta 2 (TGFB2) NM_003238 1.98

 

[freakout]

Armandein, remember when I told you hair follicles can survive in a petri dish and you won't believe me? male pattern baldness is THE EFFECT on the pilosebaceous unit. You won't find THE CAUSE in there. But if you're looking to find a 'cure' that's where you look for it but you have to enter the realm of stem cell technology.

If you visit 'real' science forums, I'm almost entirely sure you'll find experts with brains wrap around 'androgenetics'. Even they are so convinced that male pattern baldness can be 'solved' by focusing on the pilosabaceous unit.

Oops, what I mean is - no one a looking for THE CAUSE. Everyone is looking for 'TREATING THE EFFECT'. It'll make one filthy rich!

 

[freakout]

By "defect" I presume that the researchers are saying that something went wrong with the chromosome. How does that happen? All these terms "mutant", "varient", I'm starting to feel a little bad.

Hmmm... I sense some level of sarcasm in there

Current approach in genetics is 50-year-old mistake which began in the 1950's when it was declared that 'specific genes carry specific traits'.

Since then it is was estimated that humans must have 1 million to 2 millions genes since some worms have 18,000 while the more complex fruit fly has 10,000.

The Human Genome Project ENDED all that when it concluded in 2003:
Human genes = 23,000.

Conclusion: Genes could not account for human superiority and complexity. We are NOT defined by our genes. Our way of life defines us. Our way of life causes baldness by way of epigenetics.

 

[freakout]

Some geneticists could not get their brains to wrap around the small figure of 23,000 but could not stop their ongoing studies. Imagine spending you're entire professional life on a mistake?

We SHARE 98.5% of OUR genes with monkeys - difference is only about 500 genes.

It only takes a Grade 5 student to do the math. Let them keep associating genes with traits and waste their time. Other geneticists actually changed their stance on conventional genetics already.

I'm sure they'll get the world's attention when they finally find a gene or two to be:

100% unique to bald men
0% in Non-bald men.

And if ever they do, I'm sure it'll take another 300 years of Star Trek technology to implement 'gene therapy' without causing cancer.

 

[freakout]

Gene EXPRESSION IS CONTIGUOUS to a cell's environment. It means that a particular gene can be expressed differently in the brain from the kidneys. It goes are far as being expressed differently in one part of the brain from another part of the brain.

Gene expression relies on a cell's niche environment because genes CANNOT switch by themselves - EPIGENETICS.