HairlossTalk Support Forums

Hi,

I have just started on Proscar and Nizoral but I was wondering what shampoo and conditioner is best to use when I'm not using Nizoral. I have noticed the L'oreal one crops up quite a bit on this website but they don't seem to do a conditoner to go with that bottle. Has anyone got any reccomendations on a conditioner?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Dan :)

Also does anyone use any thickening sprays/serums and are they any help?

Thanks again,
Dan

There are two kinds of thickening shampoos--those that coat your hair with thin, gel or hairspray like film, and those that remove those films and other build up.

Some Thickening shampoos contain a film-forming agent--that's the only part of them that makes them thickening! Nizoral is acutally a good (though very light) thickening shampoo of this type. Thickening shampoos give thinkness by coating the hair with a thin plastic like substance. this gives the hair added thickness. multiply that by the 100,000 hairs that we have on our head and you can see how that would give you some more body. It also causes the hair to stand up a little more--it make each hair a little more stiff--again causing greater thickness. But with time these film-forming agents can build up one on top of another until the weight of the hair is greater than the strenth of the hair shaft and the bonds of the film forming agent. Result--Your hair gets pulled down by all that weight resulting in loss of volume.

The other kind of thickening shampoo is the kind that removes buildup from gel, hairspray, conditioners, the oil from you scalp etc. So without all that stuff weighing down your hair your hair bounces up again--giving the apearence of more volume.

Too little -- no volume
Too much -- no volume

I would also like to clarify (and demystify "thickening shampoos" a bit) that those are the only differences between regular shampoos and thickening shampoos. Thickenening shampoos are very standard shampoos and the only difference is that the contain a gel or hairspray like plastic (these are film-forming agents like PVP (polyvilnylpyrrolidone), PVP/VA (polyvilnylpyrrolidone/vinyl acrylate) and various other vinyls and acrylics). That is the only difference. They dont contain any "special" "secret" or "magical" ingreadients to make your hair thicker. Just a thin film of a plastic-like substance.

So--what you want is to use a film-forming shampoo one day and maybe the next day too, but then using a clarifying shampoo every 2-3 days. Also go easy on heavy conditioners and heavy gels too. those contain the same film forming agents as the thickening shampoos. And they build up much faster--and in fact can weigh down hair after just one application.
I would recomend that you continue to use the Nizoral at least 3 times a week--it is acually a great shampoo that is gentle and can add volume. Use a clarifing shampoo every 3 days or so. A clarifying is a sampoo that does not contain a film forming agent and also contains a chelating agent to remove the buildup and does not contain any heavy mosturizers. I would recomend the TRESemme European Vitamin C Deep Cleansing Shampoo. I it gentle, does not buildup, and has disodium EDTA as a chelating agent. It is also cheap -- $2.70 at Walmart for 32 oz.

Dont use heavy conditioners. These are all light, good, and cheap.
Alberto VO5 Balsam & Protien Conditioner $1.19 15 oz.
Alberto VO5 Extra Body Conditioner $1.19 15 oz.
Dove Foam Conditioner, Extra Volume $3.39 9 oz.
TRESemme European Pro Vitamin B5 and Aloe Remosurizing Conditioner
Aussie Hair Insurance Leave-in conditioner $3..99 8 oz. It is a spray that doesnt weigh hair down at all, although it is a little tricky to alply evenly.

The thickening serums would probably be too to thick and heavy.

The thickening sprays would not work because you want the film forming agent aplied evenly over a good percentage of the length of the hair. Not only on the surface -- making helmet hair.

Also, you want to try to keep the conditioners, gels, foams, mouses etc off the scalp becauase it could interfer with the absortion of minox.

Regarding gels etc. I would recomend the Vive for Men foam instead of gel. I used to use gel and I thought it was great but then I tried the foam and It was a huge difference.

I got to go. I'll be back to tie up the loose ends on this post in a couple of hours.
By the way, Vive for men doesn't have any great products for men with thin hair. Their shampoo doesnt do anything for someone with thin hair--it is just a very standard shampoo that is kind of exspensive. Their foam is a great option for fien hair though.

Im gonna say that the Loreal product shampoo worked for me..and still does..i would say f*ck a conditioner and stick with Infusium 23( and i know others would agree)as your second shampoo seeing as how its pretty much a conditioner/shampoo...

I am about a norwood 2 and the Loreal Vive works for me..cause it makes the scalp that is visible ..none visible..and thats what i want

also dont use gel..that crap shows to much scalp...use paste if you can find it..and pomade if not.

Blue, where do you get Infusium from?

Greta post Nixon's head!!!!!

I learnt a few things from that.

What is your proffesion? Are you a shampoligist ?

Cheers

Ty

Yes, great stuff Nixon's Head. I had all of that data cluttered up in my head and your post helped me sort it out.

Organic chemistry for some strange reason is my hobby. Esp. the chemicals in common everyday cosmetic products.

Now, let me recap. Good volumizing shampoos (from now on volumizing shampoos are shampoos that add that small amount of a gel or hairspray-like substance. Shampoos that remove those gel-like substances I will call clarifying shampoos). These volumizing shampoos contain a tiny amount of these gel like substances, much less than in gel, mouse, hairspary etc. They contain just enough to add a little thickness to the hairshaft and cause the hair shaft to be more ridged (like gels--how they let you put your hair in all strange difections and then stay there--defying gravity). This adds volume to fine hair, and some strenth to limp hair. But if a thickening shampoo is used every day then this film gets depositied on top of yeasterday's film, (kind of like making a candle or sticking you finger in melted chocolate and leting if cool and sticking it in the chocolate again...and again) and so on and so on until the gel-like substance cant hold up that much weight and it tips down. Kind of like those cartoons when I was a kid where bugs bunny climbed up this thin little tree to get away from a bear or something and as he kept climbing to the top he became too heavy for the tree and the tree just bent over and bugs was face to face with the bear again. So you need a clarifying shampoo every 2-3 days to remove that buildup.

Many men use gel to style their hair. In my opinion that is the worst product that people with fine, thining hair can use. It is so heavy hair instantly gets weighed down. There are no "light" gels on the market today. So there are no good gels for us to use. And it is also so heavy that it is difficult for even clarifying shampoos to remove. So gel is the worst.

Now, my critique of L'oreal Vive for Men. There is nothing special in this line for men with fine hair (with one exception). The shampoos in this line do not contain these film-forming agents so there is nothing to make fine hair look thicker. What these shampoos sould be called is "clarifying shampoos". They pose no risk of building up and do not contain heavy mosturizers. But they are exspensive for just being standard, nothing special, shampoos. The one exception is the foam (not the gel). This is a foam or mousse that would be great for someone with fine hair as it is very light and great for styling and wont build up like gels can.

For those who want a thickening shampoo I recomend Nizoral. It contains Acrylic Acid Polymer which is a film-forming agent. Well, actually it would be considered a medium volumizing shampoo.
For those who want to try other good volumizing shampoo here are some good, cheap ones

Garnier fructis fortifying shampoo for fine hair $3.50 for 13 oz at walmart
Progaine Volumizing shampoo $4.99 for 13 oz

On the days im not using Nizoral i use Tresemme pro vitamin B5 healthy volume shampoo followed with Tresemme pro vitamin B5 healthy volume conditioner it adds a lot of volume for fine thinning hair and makes the hair really light and soft