Propecia victim launches hunger strike at MERCK headquarters

[Wuffer]

No, learn how to read.

Maybe you guys are suffering brain fog here and don't know it, that or you just don't know anything about business finance.

Thanks for the explanation, I honestly didn't read it too closely and jumped to a premature conclusion. I'm glad you could clear it up for me.

Oh and thanks for not being a total dick about it (/sarcasm)

Regardless of what you guys think or do regarding your 5AR inhibitor use I could care less......

Dude, I am 100% genuinely sorry and empathize with your situation entirely. You experienced a very rare, but terrible reaction to the drug. Since the drug label did not carry sufficient warning at the time you took it, at the very least you deserve significant financial compensation. There isn't much else I can or will say in response to your post.

[Wuffer]

All i know is that there are many hundreds of men all over the world suffering from this drug.

There are also millions benefiting from the drug as well. This is the case with virtually every prescription drug out there. The vast majority benefit and a small minority suffer. This is not justified, but is the reality of medicine. Financial compensation for victims, research into potential treatments for PFS, and strengthened warnings are all items that I fully support.

If MERCK weren't making so much money from this, i mean, imagine this was a free non-profit drug and people had killed themselves over taking it, do you think this wouldn't have been better reported and better warnings would be out there? The reason the voice of the PFS sufferer has been so muted is because of MERCK. Obviously, it is their perogative to protect their brand.

I am not aware that Merck has been actively stifling the voices of PFS sufferers. In fact, Merck has been extremely quiet on the whole issue. Would you care to elaborate on how Merck has been doing this? Perhaps some events have transpired that I have not been privy to.

I think you are massively niiave to continually defend MERCK, saying things like "we need significant evidence" etc etc, eseentially using the corporate rhetoric against the voice of the average man.

Deep down, be honest, you do all fo this because you are pro-propecia for two reasons:

1) You use it yourself
2) That you subconsciously, do all of this because you have a vested interest in not getting PFS yourself. Arguing about it all the time with people who had been devasted about the drug somehow makes you feel better and makes you feel like it's a safer option than it actually is. I understand that, because it's a completely human thing to do. Hell, i've argued points because i wanted them to be true more than actually thinking it myself, many a time. It's something we all do, and i think you're blatantly doing it here.

That's my interpretation of it. You have an inherent bias. Just like someone who works for MERCK. Just like someone who had been hurt by propecia etc.

I do not "defend" Merck or finasteride. In fact, I couldn't give two sh*ts about Merck. Hell, I use generic finasteride and always tell people to do the same. If you take a good read of my more recent posts, I try my very best to remain as objective as I possibly can. Yes, I use finasteride, yes I have had a positive experience with it, and yes I recommend that people give it a try. However, I also warn of side effects based on the strongest data we currently have.

I realize PFS is a possibility as I continue to take the drug. Just as I realize mouth cancer is a possibility from smoking the occasional cigar, esophageal cancer could result from drinking, and death could result from a car crash, and so forth. I realize I am putting myself at risk, but I accept it. I don't justify my decision as you suggest, but I accept I am taking a risk because ending up with PFS is extremely unlikely. However, continuing with finasteride treatment is guaranteed to yield results that I feel significantly increase my quality of life. I don't justify taking the risk of smoking an occasional cigar and tell myself that it's not doing me any harm, but I risk these activities because I enjoy or otherwise benefit from them.

You would be much more open to listening to anedotal reports if you weren't attached to propecia yourself. Wouldn't you? If YOU end up crashing and getting PFS i also think your tone would change immensely.

What im saying is, you are been too defensive of propecia in a hairloss forum section in which people report their side effects from propecia. Leave your agenda at the door and perhaps step away from this section.

Again, I try to be as objective as I can be. You are correct, my personal experience has created an inherent bias, just as has yours has and everyone else who has had experience with the drug. However, I am not attached to Propecia. If new data is released that highlights significant danger, and the quality of this data meets my personal value system (meaning that I feel the risks outweigh the benefits) I would absolutely discontinue treatment. The FDA recently reviewed much available data on the drug and concludes that it is safe. I agree with this conclusion.

As you may or may not know, I put off finasteride treatment for a long time because of user posts and data that I at the time thought was legitimate. As my hair loss continued to worsen, I decided to dig deeper and found that much of this data was cherry picked, and presented in a way to make the drug look much worse than it is. Once I realized this, I started treatment and since had a great experience. I believe many others looking to start the drug run into the same issue I did, and I simply attempt to align their viewpoints with reality so that they don't miss out on treating their hair loss because the data was misrepresented by someone else.

I feel that much of the advice I offer to individuals suffering with side effects provides people with hope and gives them some feeling of control over their situation. I have been PM'ed many times by members who thanked me for my advice as it had helped them gain some helpful perspective in their situation.

[Mens Rea]

You keep using the word "objective" but I don't think you actually are.

Can't be bothered addressing the other elements of your post because you have already "made your mind up".

You keep talking about "awaiting data" as if you are some scientist. If you hadn't realised, it's real people like you, me, Enden and whoever else on all these boards that take fin. My story doesn't appear in the "data" or does thousands of others.

I wouldn't call it ignorant, but i would call it highly dangerous how you continually try to undermine all these reports, instead favouring a 15year old study which you or I don't know one person who was involved in it.

Lastly, your disrespectful comparisons between the chances of PFS (or indeed just sides) and getting oral cancer from a cigar or crashing a car. I know you don't mean to be, but the way those comparisons come across would make a PFS sufferer want to slap you. Fin can cause severe sides directly from the mechanisms it uses, those other things are very different.

[Timi]

i make a Hunger Strike for the Jhonson&Jhonson headquarters
Rogaine Foam have Destroyed my Hairs-my Heart-and my Face
get to a swelling Monsterface
and i must take Bloodpressuredrugs,bevor Minox No Bloodpressuredrugs
this Bloodpressuredrugs have big side effects, but Minox have make
my Heart so ill that i must take this Drugs!

[Cassin]

I am guessing this is over. No news at all

[Wuffer]

Respectfully Mens Rea, I still don't understand where exactly you are coming from. To state on the record, I believe PFS is a real condition. However, I don't personally know you, Enden, or anyone else who posts on this board. I don't know your medical histories, your lifestyles, or even your names. Unfortunately, I personally can't take posts on a forum at face value. Please don't misconstrue this statement as saying I don't believe any of you are suffering from PFS, because I do. However, many people including myself make important life decisions based on the strongest evidence available, as well as an assessment of risk.

Nobody knows how common PFS is. Based solely on the case reports the FDA examined, persistent symptoms appear to be extremely rare, in the realm of 1 in 10,000. I understand that this does not represent the true sample of people suffering with issues, but we really have nothing else to look at. We can look at the 2000+ registered members on Propeciahelp, but that isn't exactly helpful either.

If we are to give useful advice to someone starting Propecia, they absolutely need to know that persistent symptoms are a possibility. I regularly warn people of this possibility, but also state that it is likely an extremely rare outcome.

You seem to be upset about the response I made about the video posted here. Do you believe the content of that video was entirely accurate? I believe most of what she said was complete nonsense. Just as I would call out someone posting a video saying that finasteride causes no side effects and is 100% safe, I call out this video for perpetuating false information. I am not trying to stifle the voices of PFS sufferers; I am trying to stifle the perpetuation of utter nonsense. That video was a fantastic example.

I don't understand your problem with the examples I used. If you thought I was somehow implying that PFS sufferers are similar to tobacco smokers or alcoholics, you have completely misconstrued the point I was trying to make. I simply used these examples because they are activities I personally partake in. If a person takes finasteride, they run a risk of ending up with PFS. If a person smokes cigars, they run a risk of ending up with cancer. Neither of these activities are by any means necessary, but both provide benefits. Based on my personal value system and quite extensive research, I have decided that the benefits of both of these activities (as well as drinking alcohol and driving) justifies the risks involved.

[Mens Rea]

Cassin, yes it's over, and the striker is working on several media outlets for potential stories. Let's hope something works out.


Wuffer - we've been here before. What it boils down to, IMO, is that you place too much emphasis on a MERCK study and too little emphasis on countless real-life examples of fin ****ing people's lives up. Whether you are close to these people, know their backgrounds or not, it doesn't distort the extremely blatant reality that it's out there. Dr Crisler, Professor Bouloux, Dr Irwig, Dr Goldstein, Dr Jacobs and many many others see hundreds of these sufferers and all of these have spoke about PFS. All of this doesn't correspond with MERCK's study whatsoever. Clearly, something is wrong. Very wrong.

Also, from my observations, I've came across at least 50 UK PFS sufferers. I know Bouloux himself has seen 40-50 people as he told me himself. I don't think it's farfetched to say there's probably at least a few hundred people bad affected by finasteride in the UK alone. Given the UK population isn't that big, and only a very very small percentage of that population will ever have taken fin, this is an alarming rate of problems IMO. It might well be that men in the UK, for some genetic reason, may be more predisposed to PFS than others. Who knows? Even in Northern Ireland, where im from, I've spoken to about 15 guys who have some form of PFS. Surely there are more. Yet, i doubt there is many men on fin over here. It's a very unknown drug here. That concerns me greatly.

As for the video, i agree there are several huge inaccuracies in it. But let's be honest. It's much more dangerous under-warning people than over warning them. And MERCK 'under-warned' people for years. Ultimately fin is ruining many, many lives and it'd rather get the message out, even if it is overkill at times. Fin might be helping many men in terms of MPB, and I'm very aware of that, but it's not a life saving drug either.

Put it like this. The amount of times I've been told by men that they would never have touched fin had they known there was even the slightest risk of tangible sides - even temporary ones. The ignorance in this area is staggering. You underestimate it because you have spent time researching it. A large percentage of men who take propecia take it without due consideration. Most men aren't avid HLT or propeciahelp browsers, and believe it or not, many aren't that vain or into the hairloss thing but they take propecia because they were recommended it by a friend or a doctor as an easy way to help fight MPB. I've got no doubt in my mind that thousands upon thousands of propecia users would stop taking it if they knew the full story and wouldn't give a **** about their hair because they value their sexual function etc much more highly. So, we both need to consider it for the semi layman's perspective.