Hair Loss Treatments
Hair Loss & Alopecia Information, Support, and Treatments
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  1. #1
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    Cryotherapy for Angiogenesis blood vessel formation)withPICS

    I'm very excited on starting a new phase and new treatment approach. I have been searching on how to increase angiogenesis or blood vessel formation in the scalp. VEGF is one thing that increases that and there are several pathways that are involved in angiogenesis. That includes histidine, which is precursor for histamine that helps in angiogenesis. Also, prostaglandins like Latisse(bimatoprost) are also involved an increase blood vessel formation.

    Now I have been on Latisse again for 7 weeks now, and have taken pictures before I started and after... and will post them soon, so dont worry.

    But at the same time I have been looking at other ways to increase angiogenesis. I have always wondered why hair loss in men is in a certain pattern. Hair at the back and sides always even on very old men, is still there yet they have no hair on the top, crown area and front.

    This led me to findout out about skull expansion etc which makes sense to a big degree. It states that DHT is responsible for bone resportion and remodeling which does not stop just at puberty but continues througout your lifetime. It also states that people with more of a square head shape than a roundshape are more likely to keep their hair because their remodeling happens in a different way and I can attest to that and have always noticed how Red indians, south american indians, and people of Alaskan Inuit descent all have mostly square head shapes and barely ever have I seen any hairloss them.

    So one route is to inhibit topical DHT which I will do through topical estrogen which might help to slow or alter the bone resorption/remodeling. But at the same time its obvious to me that when my hair loss started at 17, with a very small bald spot right where the hair grows out of at the crowne, it steadily and slowly over many years expanded to start including my entire crowne area... and than spreading in a circular pattern and diffuse thinning than to the front too and also back area, but not the very bottom back where of course i have all my hair.... and where there is no hard skull area.. but more soft tissue...so its like a progressive disease if you will, that spread not rapidly if one thinks about it, but took several years... so what is missing is the layers of fat and blood vessels, espeically the browne adipose tissue which is " Cold exposure produces adaptive hyperplasia and growth of brown adipose tissue (BAT), the major site of non-shivering thermogenesis in rodents, associated with increased angiogenesis in this tissue" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1218903/

    as mentioned in that article. From my research I have found it that cryotherapy is commonly used to initiate angiogenesis! This is something that can be done at home using different wart freezing sprays/etc that have freezing temps of -10 to -70 degree Celsius. Once the tissue is destroyed at the much lower temperature, blood vessels form around the damaged tissue and than start spreading and growing into the damaged area and thus new vessels are formed. This treatment is used for cancer patients who suffer from alopecia. you can google it and here is a link: http://www.livestrong.com/article/22869 ... rom-chemo/

    So your brown fat tissue is increaese as one of the websites relating to skull expansion states is needed to increase normal hair regrowth, implying thus that browne adipose tissue is missing or decreaed due to the streching of the skull. And if we touch are top hard skull parts and right at the back/top crowne area, we can feel that there is not much fat there, compared to the very back or sides. So this all makes sense. If DHT was soley responsible for our hair loss as most of the corporate zombie American pharmaceuticals will have us believe, just so we can buy more of their chemical castration Propecia which turns a man into a asexual/zombie with low libido and no self esteem, ya forget that but what I was saying was --- than we wouldn't have hair anywhere, because DHT actually causes hair growth and not just all over the body but if you even just take hair on the head, why is it that DHT somehow isn't able to affect the hair right south of the horshoe line?? I mean, the same blood supply is flowing through the entire body so DHT cannot be a very significant cause in hair loss. Now DHT helps bone remodeling and resorption and in some people due to genetics and other factors it affects the skull more than some other races, but the point is it is a problem that can be solved in my opinion.

    I am going to attempt doing cryotherapy (freezing) my scalp few areas at a time, starting with the most bald/thinning, which is the crowne. Once the area starts to get revascularized and also browne adipose tissue fat deposting again, than I am sure my hair will start to grown again like it already does on my head but something hard and big (my top skull area) is blocking my hair from growing as healthy and normally as before.

    Curcumin, Resveratorl (decreases angiognesis) and grape seed extracts and all the other crap especially green tea all hurt http://greentealovers.com/greenteahealt ... genesis%22

    all hurt angiogenesis and really are a waste of time! and money! Think about it.. .it has been decades since people have been taking all this nonsense yet I have yet to see after sooo many years one real set of pictures before and after.... wich photos taken every few weeks not just one photoshopped lame picture... i have yet to see a single time that any of this crap grew hair!!????

    So why are we still trying to use these same things in different topicals?? They dont work! I know why though and that is because we all have lost hope so we are willing to try anything, even if that means try something again.

    Trust me I know, im 28 and it sucks to not have my full head of hair like I did until I was about 23, than the hair loss just became very noticeable. It started of course when I was 17.

    Now I am sure there some people with round skulls yet have a thick set of hair. But for the most part I have noticed it is guys with the arnold terminator square head look that mostly keep their hair.

    But again the point is more than the shape of the head,,,, is whats underneath your scalp. If you are missing browne tissue adipose than you have less vascularization and thus like the slow pattern i mentioned before... it happens slowly and slowly until no more significant blood vessels are there for hair to get nutrients.

    So the current topical I am using mainly has things to encourage angiogenesis.

    I am using NO Infuse topical spray which includes l-arginine and other things such as ATP for increased energy and nitric oxide production, which the lining of your blood vessels release, and which play a key role in angiogenesis and blood vessel formation. http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/105/18/2133.full

    Also I have thrown in that same bottle,
    1. Nanogen VEGF Plant Serum
    2. Thymosin Spray by Douglas Labs (for possible thymosin stem cell activation)
    3. Melatonin (which has been used to treat alopecia in dog fur, bet you didn't know that ) http://www.melatek.net/images/Kirks_III_article.pdf

    http://www.ehow.com/facts_5772150_melat ... rowth.html

    4. crushed Vitamin B-12 tablets
    5. Rasberry Ketone powder from capsules( for increased IGF-1 production , which basically leads to more skin elasticity and a healthier skin and other functions. Decreases after age 30 so I figured if it helps with youth probably good for hair. There are some studies that indicate that IGF1 is not good for hair growth. But I find most state that it does help with skin and hair, and not to mention proven for muscle growth. Body builders use it. Key emphasis on the word 'growth'

    6. Also a few vials of bimatoprost(latisse). I use latisse seperately too directly from the little bottle it comes in on my scalp, but I also mixed it in my Super topical mix that I have also with everything else in it as mentioned above.

    So with all this combined I feel like I am giving my scalp the necessary ingredients to get my hair growing again through of course, angiogenesis.

    But seperately as I mentioned I will try the cryotherapy in the next few days once I get paid at the end of the week. It won't cost much to get this stuff. Its available at walgreens and online. Key thing is to get something that goes below just -10 celsius so their is more tissue destruction. Preferably around -40 to -70 degrees. The key thing is to do small areas at a time and not your entire scalp! I will probably split it into 4 or 5 segments so that it does not hurt too much.

    The research I have done indicates that cold temperature leads to angiogenesis in humans as well as rats/hamsters etc.

    I guess that is the body's way of trying to continue providing nutrients to key areas of the body. It makes way more sense, all of this that is to me than the DHT inhibition propecia and body bloatin hurt huring Rogaine crap we have been fed for sooo many years.

    The stem cells in a bald scalp area are the same as everywher else on the scalp...
    http://www.baumanblog.com/follicleblog/ ... dness.html

    and they proved that they actually are very miniaturized hair follicles still present in the scalp, but just invisible to the naked eye!

    So lets see how this all goes. I will post pictures of my Latisse (bimatoprost) experiment at the 2 months mark which is in about a week, so just hold on.

    I would love to hear what you guys have to say.........and thanks for reading my very long post, much appreciated !

  2. #2
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    PICTURES OF CRYOTHERAPY PERFORMED AT HOME

    IT WONT LET ME POST PICTURES , GOTO THIS WEBSITE FOR PICS:

    http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum ... nswer.html

    here are pictures of the cryotherapy I performed today at home.
    I used Dimethyl ether and propane or DMEP which has a temperature of -57 Celsius.

    That is enough to destroy mitochondira and thus the cell.

    As you can see I have quite a bit of scarring. Its frozen blood inside though and it doesn't hurt when I put any topicals.

    Hopefully this should lead to increased angiogenesis and brown adipose tissue production and thus new hair regrowth.

    The last picture was taken immediately after the procedure. You can see there is not much scar buildup yet. The first two pictures were taken several hours later after the procedure and you can see that scarring /blood damage under the skin has become visible.

  3. #3
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    Re: Cryotherapy for Angiogenesis blood vessel formation)withPICS

    You can also see pictures on my Photo Blog.
    Will post pictures again after healing to see what regrowth happens after
    combining latisse (bimatoprost) therapy and cryotherapy.

    Have been on Latisse already for 2 months... but lets wait for pictures before I decide if it is working. I will post the before and after pics

  4. #4
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    Re: Cryotherapy for Angiogenesis blood vessel formation)withPICS

    I might add I've stopped using Dermol or cortisone topical
    due to the fact that cortisol decrease angiogenesis or blood vessel formation

  5. #5
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    Re: Cryotherapy for Angiogenesis blood vessel formation)withPICS

    I was chattin with a member on here and he raised some interesting yet flawed points... read his reply to me and my follow up:

    "you can't say finasteride won't work on me because you say yourself that block the production of dht is important and that's something you try to achieve. the maliniak theory that you are on about on your profile, is kind of flawed, because our skulls are growing when we are younger, they stop growing at a certain age too so why does hairloss carry on after the age skulls stop growing? and why do other people not get any hairloss at all? what about women with the same round shaped heads who don't get hairloss? the theory is flawed. "

    MY REPLY:

    thts not correct, bone resorption and remodeling continue till you die! google it!
    also, i used cryogenic freeze spray few days ago and have considerable scarring under my skin. It doesn't hurt though, If you want to follow my experiment your welcome to at this site, i have pictures there too: http://www.hairsite.com/hair-loss/forum ... nswer.html

    DHT does have some role and after puberty it increases in men. Pre-pubescent male children DO NOT have as nearly DHT as adults, so your argument stating that since the skull keeps even growing during childhood yet no hair loss does not stand. Now at the end of the day some guys get baldness some dont. So somewhere along the way I am sure your genes play a role that triggers the loss of blood vessels and brown adipose tissue but that is not to say that if you have less blood vessels and brown adipose tissue, that can't be corrected. Your completely incorrect when you state that bone remodeling and skull growth stop. Women don't have as much dht and genetically have different bone structure and growth. You CANNOT compare a grown man's facial skeleton with a grown womens. Men obviously look manlier due to dht and other factors that women dont have.

    Yes, Finasteride helps to chemically castrate your manhood and decrease serum DHT levels. But that only SLOWS down the rate of hair loss. Hair loss at some rate will continue until you die... that is proven. Finasteride doesn't completely halt hair loss and in most cases DOES NOT regrow lost hair, espeically in TEMPLES. Finasteride ONLY works in the crown. Have you thought about why that is??? If DHT was the sole cause of hair loss than why do men not grow back their hair in the front temples???? Let me explain now. As I said, finasteride only slows hair loss due to dht inhibition. But the blood vessels and brown adipose tissue that is lost for example in the frontal temples cannot be recreated simply by lowering dht. What needs to take place is angiogenesis and new blood vessel formation that starting at puberty slowly started to decrease... If Dht is the cause of hair loss than explain to me one more thing... why do all men have their hair on the backside and sides??? Time to think outside the box my friend or you can continue to suffer with your hair loss. Thats your choice.

  6. #6
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    Hormones that are Involved in Bone Remodeling/Resporption

    It is more than just DHT. DHT and testosterone influence it but the MAIN IS :

    "The metabolic functions of the skeleton are served in large part by two major calcium-regulating hormones, parathyroid hormone (PTH)1 and 1,25-dihydroxy vitamin D (Table 1? ). A third hormone, calcitonin, which can inhibit bone resorption, may be important in skeletal development but appears to play little role in physiologic calcium regulation in adult humans. It is a potent inhibitor of bone resorption and is used clinically in the treatment of osteoporosis. "

    http://www.clinchem.org/content/45/8/1353.full

    Also this article clearly states how the skeleton is constantly remodeling itself throughout life and is actually a necessary function to keep homeostasis.

    "The skeleton is a metabolically active organ that undergoes continuous remodeling throughout life. This remodeling is necessary both to maintain the structural integrity of the skeleton and to subserve its metabolic functions as a storehouse of calcium and phosphorus. These dual functions often come into conflict under conditions of changing mechanical forces or metabolic and nutritional stress. "

  7. #7
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    Re: Cryotherapy for Angiogenesis blood vessel formation)withPICS

    Thanks alot for collect all this infos and that you try all this stuff out.
    Did you got any new hair growth?

    I usecurrently SCG with alk and PG40 and got some new Hairs (5-10) after 1 month using. This are realy new one where i was since 10 years bald.

  8. #8
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    Re: Cryotherapy for Angiogenesis blood vessel formation)withPICS

    Thought you might find this interesting in relation to VEGF.
    http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/41 ... pplements/

    but I know gotu kola upregulates VEGF, TGFB1, BRF1, and FGF1 & 2 by between 60% and 70%

    After taking gotu kola, I started sprouting new hair follicles & sometimes really odd looking dark hairs on my back, upper arms, shoulders, chest, stomach, and weirdly enough, a couple on my earlobes. The effect started when I began gotu kola (maybe a month after I started), but I believe it has been greater in volume after I began taking 4-8 grams of turmeric/day.


    Gotu kola does little under homeostatic conditions, but during immune responses it heightens the response. That's actually not exactly true, because upregulates the expression of a cluster of genes that play a role in cellular division, stem cell mobilization, and differentiation of progentiors into mature tissue. Curcumin has some of those effects as well, namely stem cell mobilization via the CSXCR-4 alpha-kemokine, and upregulation of TGF-B1, and has been shown to be upregulate neurogenesis, although I can't recall if that's via increased differentiation or increased # of neural stem cell. Anyways, off topic.

    Essentially this: Both Gotu Kola & Turmeric have been shown to upregulate proliferation & differentiation of cells. I have almost no knowledge about what cascade stimulates hair follicle growth, so it would be on you to research that. However, i do know that both substances are proliferative agents, and I know that in my body they induced significant hair growth on my shoulders and upper arms (minor hair growth on the underside of the forearm, and other areas).


    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC199257/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10771470
    There's a genetic link between hair growth and VEGF-mediated angiogenesis. Gotu kola upregulates VEGF to 1.68*control (something around there, read the mit assay). You'll get the largest change in angiogenisis if you induce bleeding at the site. This might sound crazy, but what I would do is take gotu kola in fairly high dose (like 9g-12g/day, chewed) for maybe 2-3 months, and then take a needle and poke the crap out of my head. I'd make the holes regular, make sure you sterilize. Don't wipe away the blood, let it coagulate naturally, but make sure you thoroughly clean the site beforehand

  9. #9
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    They see me rolling, they hating...
    bump.

  10. #10
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    From the thread creator: "I might add that the wounding, tissue damage I am currently experiencing is significant (yet it doesn't hurt one bit). Its all under the skin, and is way more significant than any dermaroller I could have used. With that I just destory my skin and its never deep enough. I can see that the scarring in this case has gone all the way deep inside."

    He may have been onto something (depending on whether this type of wounding was beneficial), I wonder what kind of results he may have had if any.

    His hair looked fine to me in his most recent post at HS, it also sounded like he moved onto some other treatments or theories...
    The trouble on these hair loss forums is that people are emotionally involved, and often just want to `believe' that a particular thing offers `hope'. This is why it is often easy for real science to be overlooked in MPB, but in the long term it is only `real' science that will provide the answers! -SFoote
    http://hair-less.blogspot.com/

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