My Big 3++ story...Month 11 update! Coming close to one year

[WillNotLetItHappen]

Forero thank you for the effort and time to post this. You're right it may take very long to improve and I firmly believe it will. I think we are both well off, could be much worse and I believe we have a few good years more to go with hair. Thanks for the pics, this is very interesting! Have you read the 10yr study on Fin too? They also showed that in most cases it took a long time (at least 2-3 years) and that hair continued to get better for many years but the first year seems to be a good indicator. If it gets better after one year, Fin will improve your hair more after more time on it.

I'm also trying to be reasonable. My hairline is so good right now, it will be back to my juvenile hairline by the time all that small hair grows in I'm guessing! I have a weird pattern of hairloss and it does not seem to go in a Norwood pattern because my front still stays so strong. When my hair is wet I see it being a little bit thinner in the front than on the sides but I guess that's normal. Other than that it is really from the middle of my head to the vertex where I'm thinning. And I've never seen anybody bald in the back only while keeping their complete front?! Well maybe Ted Danson.

What I'm trying to say is I don't think there is a reason to believe that all my hair will fall out in the back while my front stays intact. So as long as my front is still thick I will hold on to most of my hair in my vertex. Am I making sense here? I guess, only time will tell.

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Studies never seem to mention shedding so much but we know so many anecdotes from reading the forums. Really anything is possible and I truly believe that the 100 hairs a day rule doesn't matter too much anymore when you are on meds. I got Minox and Fin interfering with the hair cycles, and who knows how many hairs are currently "out of balance" from where they normally would be.

Let's keep the faith. Also, in a few years there'll be some exciting treatments available and there is a lot of hype going on (Replicel, Aderant, HTC, cloning, Bimatoprost, that PG2 or whatever ****, Equol and what not). Good luck all...

Damn, it can really take a looong time to improve!

Oh yeah, and only so few have really good progress within 6 months or something. Most people are too impatient IMHO...

[WillNotLetItHappen]

Ok, just to keep this complete: Month 13 completed. Not much new, I keep repeating myself. Shedding goes on, hardly a day under 100 hairs, most of the time I would guess 120-150. This must have been going on since at least June, before it must have been less hair. I'm unsure if my status is deteriorating on the vertex. The big picture is, I have maintained for a year, I guess that's good. My hairline keeps getting better. Amazing. I have tiny hair all over. We'll see. Fighting MPB is exhausting, reading these forums is exhausting, obsessing over hairloss is exhausting. But - life goes on. There are a few good years with hair in front of me, I'm sure. There are new ways to treat hairloss, and some will hit the market soon. I'm excited about Folexen as well. Currently I don't want to add anything to my regimen but maybe in the future if all goes down the drain.
So long...

[mak123]

Just read through whole of the thread. Thanks for sharing your experiences & it is appreciated.

I'm presently thinking of starting on Fin after years of avoiding it through fears of sides etc. Main trouble is thinned crown area & its really being a bummer in my confidence especially when i had such great hair most of my life. Barber always had to use the thinning scissors to lighten the load. oh the good old days.. Took my first photo yesterday of top of my head & it was rather depressing.

Now I have reached an age & a point with my hair its now or never. Up till now i have been doing a regime of regular exercise (cardio & strength), clean controlled diet & supplements which have left me feeling better than i have in many years but the hair is still the same. I'm hopping to keep what i have in the least & possible gain if possible. Consensus is telling me to leave off the minix to start with & give Fin alone a go for 8 months & than add minix if no progress & this is what i intend to do. The shedding related to Minix is not encouraging at all so i feel its best left as an after thought.

[Benjamin36]

And I've never seen anybody bald in the back only while keeping their complete front?! Well maybe Ted Danson.

Kevin Smith?

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[WillNotLetItHappen]

Just read through whole of the thread. Thanks for sharing your experiences & it is appreciated.

I'm glad this is of any use, thank you. It is always a compromise. It is not perfect for me with Fin, but it I couldn't live without hair. I just have to put up a fight, I would never forgive myself if I hadn't fought. The most important thing is to keep living your life and not waste too much time on these forums like we all do. We have to force us to move on. While we whine here on forums and pity ourselves, life goes on. There is a girl to be loved, a family to be fed and a life to be lived. I sometimes forgot that in the last years.

I wish you good luck, this sounds like a good plan. Be reasonable, do not let anyone discourage you. Update us on your journey.

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Kevin Smith?

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Thanks Benjamin, that's a great outlook I would go for a partial hairpiece. This doesn't feel right.

[WillNotLetItHappen]

Wow. Under 80 hairs under the shower for the first time in at least two months. Libido sucks.

[oldmpber]

2 things:
There are variations of the mpb process according to some of the dr's who have published articles on FIN. One by Sinclair mentions that one type is where men bald faster in the vertex than in the front. I know this was true on my mom's side of the family and that is what has happened to me so far. So you probably have this type as well.

Also just know that while it may seem aggressive now, that doesn't mean it will always be that way. Again, I saw this happen to my uncle and now myself. His vertex started thinning fast around his mid to late 30's only to slow down in his early 40's. It remained slow until his late 40's and then started up fast again. Some hair docs say one variation of mpb is that it comes in spurts every decade. Pretty sure this is the case for me as well. My vertex started around the same time as my uncle but I got on fin and it started to reverse. After 4 years or so I started getting sides. Now not sure if this is a coincidence or not, but after getting off Fin and going through the sheding, I got some of my hair back and noticed my mpb had greatly slowed. Minox alone was enough. Now that I am hitting my late 40's it has started again. So the decade thing seems to be true for some of us.
So hopefully you will get a break soon and that might be what your latest post indicates.
good luck!

[WillNotLetItHappen]

Thank you for the post. I assume you were talking about this article. Great read! Contains a wealth of information!
http://www.baldness-treatment.net/an...c_alopecia.pdf

It remains to be seen what type of loss I will further develop but it sure looks like it is aggressive now. Had another 180 hairs in the shower today, no further signs of abating. Makes me really wonder if I'm doing the right thing. I'm sorry if I keep repeating myself but it is a frustrating fight. While I kind of enjoy the look of my hair now and it is quite ok in general, I wonder how much longer it will be like that. While the 100 hairs per day rule surely doesn't apply to people on treatments, how much hair can and should you lose after 14 months on Propecia? I know for a fact that I'm losing less hair than a year ago where I had a ton in my hand when shampooing, the hair I lose now still adds up to over 100 every damn day. And the hair in the back generally seems to be looser than the rest of the head. So most likely the 150+ hairs I'm losing are not evenly from all over my head but from my most affected area - the vertex.

Amazing how much hair I really must have had, that it is still not easily visible. It is on my mind way too much. I wonder if I should change my regimen to something stronger. I have come up with a plan:

1) I will get my hormone status in 2 weeks' time. I'm quite anxious to get the results. This also has to do with my libido which is really too low. Based on the results I will amend my regimen...
2) I will add azelaic acid to my Minox (like Xandrox). It seems to reduce DHT in the scalp.
I found this site and ordered flakes: http://www.qdbd.com/hair_formulas_18.htm This should be a straightforward addition to my protocol without too much hassle.
3) Maybe I will need to add an aromatase inhibitor to lower estrogen or something for prolactin. I'll speak to my doctor about it. I put my hair over a relationship at the moment. This is not the way it's supposed to be. I want both.
4) I'm also thinking of trying out a 3 weeks on, 1 week off routine with everything to avoid an upregulation of the Androgen Receptors and maybe help my libido. Alternatively I could lower the dose again. Both is worrying me, because I still lose so much hair even though I'm on 1.25mg of Fin currently.
5) Folexen. I like the idea of Equol binding to DHT. Maybe you can get away with using less Fin while using Equol. It seems very promising.
6) Maybe add Dut once a week? Never thought I would go that far, I remember when I first read this I thought the guys were completely crazy. Will most likely not help my libido.

Sorry for the whining again. I can't help it. I'm struggling with accepting the fact that I'm going bald and I'm not on the success forum yet...
Good luck fellas.

[Beingbaldsucksass]

Your name really represent your motivation

[WillNotLetItHappen]

I will post an update in a few days when my 14th month is completed. I have read a few interesting things. One is the well known 5y finasteride study. It is worth reading.
http://www.jle.com/fr/revues/medecin.../FE/article.md
It contains many things that are often said on these forums, but it is also often hard to overlook them:

1) ".....peak efficacy was observed at one to two years of treatment with finasteride." To me it seems that the second year is also more interesting in my case, I'm seeing my hair change for real now. It really takes a long time, but this looks promising. 90% of men in this study had success with finasteride, albeit to a different extent. While on Finasteride we should just enjoy life and forget baldness. The key is to jump on DHT-altering treatments as soon as you start losing it because you can keep what you have for at least a prolonged time.

2) This excerpt is a good explanation why I seem to be seeing so much shedding:
"In that study, initiation of finasteride treatment was shown to increase the number of anagen-phase hairs and to increase the anagen to telogen ratio, consistent with normalization of the growth cycles of previously miniaturized hairs due to the release of hair follicles from the inhibitory effects of DHT [26]. Consistent with these results, finasteride treatment was also shown to increase the growth rate and/or thickness of hairs, based on analysis of serial hair weight measurements [27]. Because these beneficial changes in the hair growth cycle are dependent on when therapy with finasteride is initiated and occur rapidly, the affected hairs are driven to cycle in a synchronous manner. If these hairs have somewhat similar anagen phase durations, they would enter telogen phase as the anagen (and catagen) phase ended, followed by subsequent shedding, in a partially synchronized fashion. This would be expected to produce a gradual decline from peak hair count after a period of time equal to the average anagen phase duration. Eventually, as subsequent growth cycles recurred, these hairs would be expected to become increasingly independent, thereby losing their synchronous character as their growth cycles further normalized over time, leading to a sustained increase in hair count at a plateau above baseline, as suggested by the 5-year data presented here."
I'm now convinced that the 100 hairs a day-rule does not apply to people on Finasteride, at least not initially before the growth cycle of the animated hairs becomes independent.

3) There is an interesting hairloss success story without Finasteride on a bodybuilding forum.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...2250361&page=1
Even more interesting is page 3 where a guy describes how he dealt with Fin sides, basically going from 1.25mg ED to EOD and every three days to get back 80% of his libido. May be worth a try, further down the line.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...2250361&page=3