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  1. #1
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    Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    First of all, my compliments for this website and usefull forum. I am glad with the knowledge I got form this forum and after about 1,5 years of only loosing the hairloss-battle, I feel that I am finally winning ground again by using 5% minoxidil. My crown area is finally looking much better, and my NW1-2 will definately not become a NW 2 -Vertex; something which I felt would happen soon if I wouldn't interfer.

    However, like many users of hairloss products I feel that the biggest side-effect I am suffering from is FEAR of side effects. I tried finasteride for a bit but didn't feel to well on it and also suffered from objective side effects: acne outbreak.

    Anyway, bottom line is: I love minox for what it does to my hair (regrowth!) but fear possible damage I may do to my heart. I know that minox is not advised for people suffering from a heart disease, but I am wondering if it is possible that minox is the CAUSE of a heart disease? I tend to think that I feel something on my chest, but honestly cannot objectively determine whether it is real or not!

    The following article is a bit scary:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1386573/

    Finally, are there objective parameters I could check to see if minox is effecting me such as morning rest rate (being an athlete I do know what my morning heart rate used to be) and blood pressure?

    Any reassurence or information would be very welcome as I 1) love what minox does to my hair but 2) do not want to do any damage to my body!
    Looking for a regime that will not hurt my athletic performance, any advice is welcome!

  2. #2
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    Re: Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    you're right in that side effects from things like minox tend to be in our heads..i havent been using minox for very long (only a couple months). I remember the first time i ever applied it my heart rate shot way up for like 5 mins and I was sitting there thinking. OH **** THIS MUST BE FROM THE MINOX! turns out it was just anxiety from thinking about even having sides because it never happened again and i had used such a small amount of minox the first time lol.

    As far as long long term, Idont know..i havent seen anyone on here whos been on minox for say, 10 years or something. That study you linked to is very old though...1988 so..about 22 years old.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bryan's Avatar
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    Re: Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    Quote Originally Posted by Machiavelli
    First of all, my compliments for this website and usefull forum. I am glad with the knowledge I got form this forum and after about 1,5 years of only loosing the hairloss-battle, I feel that I am finally winning ground again by using 5% minoxidil. My crown area is finally looking much better, and my NW1-2 will definately not become a NW 2 -Vertex; something which I felt would happen soon if I wouldn't interfer.
    It's important for you to understand that topical minoxidil by itself will not interfere with the fundamental balding process! Your hair will inevitably get worse, even if it appears to get better for a period of time with minoxidil alone. You need to use other therapies in addition to minoxidil, if you want long-term success.

    By the way, what country are you from?
    1) No, damnit, finasteride for hairloss was NOT an "accidental discovery".
    2) No, you do NOT have to use minoxidil and Retin-A at the same time.
    3) No, washing your skin does NOT make it produce more sebum.

  4. #4
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    Re: Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan
    It's important for you to understand that topical minoxidil by itself will not interfere with the fundamental balding process! Your hair will inevitably get worse, even if it appears to get better for a period of time with minoxidil alone. You need to use other therapies in addition to minoxidil, if you want long-term success.
    Bryan:

    Where did you get that minoxidil does not interfere with the fundamental balding process? I've read you stating the same over and over again in this forum but still I haven't read an article pointing in such direction. If there is one, I'd really love to read it.

    If I'm not wrong, I understand that what you believe is that minoxidil only increases the number of hairs in telogen phase, making them "more visible" and so improving appearance without preventing your hairs from thinning and falling out. But minoxidil seems to thicken up your hair too and make new terminal hairs pop up where there was nothing before. I also have two studies showing that minoxidil efficacy is maintained in the long term for as long as 5 years with just a slow decline in hair count.

    I understand you might have read a lot more than me but from my point of view now I'm not sure what you say is totally right. Could you clear it up?

    Thanks!

  5. #5
    Senior Member Bryan's Avatar
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    Re: Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    Quote Originally Posted by guybrush
    Bryan:

    Where did you get that minoxidil does not interfere with the fundamental balding process? I've read you stating the same over and over again in this forum but still I haven't read an article pointing in such direction. If there is one, I'd really love to read it.
    That general idea comes from several long-term topical minoxidil studies in which measured hair counts and/or hair weights seemed to almost inevitably decline as time went by! They all show a beneficial increase in such counts over the short term, but almost always decline (I can think of only one rare exception), as more time goes by. A good example of such a study would be Vera Price's excellent 1999 study which compared 2% and 5% versions of topical minoxidil with placebo users. That was the study in which Dr. Price coined that term I've used so much about how all minoxidil does is provide an extra "offset of growth" to hair, as counts and weights continue to decline in the long-term.

    Quote Originally Posted by guybrush
    I also have two studies showing that minoxidil efficacy is maintained in the long term for as long as 5 years with just a slow decline in hair count.
    What are the two studies? If one of them is the Olsen et al study I'm thinking of, I'm already quite familiar with it. Like you said yourself, it _does_ show a steady decline in haircounts over the 5 years, which is what I've been saying.
    1) No, damnit, finasteride for hairloss was NOT an "accidental discovery".
    2) No, you do NOT have to use minoxidil and Retin-A at the same time.
    3) No, washing your skin does NOT make it produce more sebum.

  6. #6
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    Re: Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    Did not haircount "inevitably decline" in Propecia trials after 12 months?

    These are the studies I mentioned, the second one from Olsen as you said:

    - http://www.hairlosstalk.com/hair-los...year-study.pdf
    - http://www.hairlosssucks.com/downloa...5yrresults.pdf

    And here's the paper from Vera Price:
    - http://viewer.zoho.com/docs/vdxddw

    I'll read it up later and see if it helps me to clarify the issue.

    Thanks Bryan

  7. #7
    Senior Member Bryan's Avatar
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    Re: Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    Quote Originally Posted by guybrush
    Did not haircount "inevitably decline" in Propecia trials after 12 months?
    Not as consistently as it did in topical minoxidil studies, I believe. In fact, one finasteride study by Vera Price found that counts pretty much held steady or even increased very slightly during the 96 weeks of the study, if I recall correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by guybrush
    These are the studies I mentioned, the second one from Olsen as you said:

    - http://www.hairlosstalk.com/hair-los...year-study.pdf
    - http://www.hairlosssucks.com/downloa...5yrresults.pdf
    The first one, the Rietschel report, is the "rare exception" which I mentioned earlier in this thread; he found an actual increase in haircounts over an extended period of time. Balancing that one unusual study would be the one from Olsen above; another one from Koperski (it's mentioned by Rietschel above); the minoxidil study by Price; and yet another study (I don't remember the authors) which compared 2% and 5% minoxidil. Those last two found VERY significant reductions in haircounts after the first year, if I recall correctly.

    Aside from that odd Rietschel report, it's very very common to find reductions in haircounts in minoxidil studies after the first year or so. I think the reason for that is obvious and inescapable: minoxidil doesn't really interfere with the fundamental balding process!
    1) No, damnit, finasteride for hairloss was NOT an "accidental discovery".
    2) No, you do NOT have to use minoxidil and Retin-A at the same time.
    3) No, washing your skin does NOT make it produce more sebum.

  8. #8
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    Re: Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    @Bryan: I am from the Netherlands, why?

    Are there relevant studies available that asses the long-term safety of Minox, respecially regarding the health of one's heart.

    In addition, I am aware that Minox does not stop the underlying cause of MBP. Therefore I will be adding ASC-J9 to my regime soon (finasteride was not a succes for me).
    Looking for a regime that will not hurt my athletic performance, any advice is welcome!

  9. #9
    Senior Member Bryan's Avatar
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    Re: Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    Quote Originally Posted by Machiavelli
    @Bryan: I am from the Netherlands, why?
    Just curious. It was obvious that you were from somewhere in Europe!

    Quote Originally Posted by Machiavelli
    Are there relevant studies available that asses the long-term safety of Minox, respecially regarding the health of one's heart.
    Not that I know of. By the way, I posted years ago on alt.baldspot about that same study you mentioned in your first post in this thread! It _is_ a rather troubling study. I asked Dr. Proctor if he knew of any evidence on whether or not the increase in LV mass that you get with topical minoxidil continues to increase for as long as you use it, and all he said was something like "I hope that doesn't happen."
    1) No, damnit, finasteride for hairloss was NOT an "accidental discovery".
    2) No, you do NOT have to use minoxidil and Retin-A at the same time.
    3) No, washing your skin does NOT make it produce more sebum.

  10. #10
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    Re: Safety Long-Term Usage 5% Minoxidil

    @Bryan: Hmmm, it is indeed troublesome! All other studies I could find mention that Minoxidil has no systematic side effects, but I tend to believe this was one of the few studies that did in-depth research regarding Minox's effect on one's heart. Right now I am seriously considering to drop Minox, it's not worth to risk my heart's health for my hair; how much I'd like to keep my hairs though...

    I am just curious, how can a product that has such significicant REPORTED side effects be approved by the FDA? In addition, why do we find so many (sometimes unrealistically dramatic) stories about fina's side effects but zero to none stories about minox?
    Looking for a regime that will not hurt my athletic performance, any advice is welcome!

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